The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#139 - Niko Teller
The road from an Okinawan family dojo to the rocky spine of the Northeast isn’t as long as it looks. Meet trail runner and former Muay Thai athlete Niko Teller, a blue-collar UPS driver who turns daily mileage, discipline, and gritty terrain into real speed. We dig into how martial arts forged his mindset, why hips are the hidden engine for climbing and descending, and how he built technical downhill confidence on the Appalachian Trail, in the Catskills, and across the White Mountains.
We break down the Northeast short-trail scene—from Chocorua to the Baldface Scramble—and why these 20 to 30K courses deliver as much vert and skill demand as some ultras. Nico explains how he trains when the “mountains” are 400 feet high, stacking hill repeats, AT long runs, and gravel bike cross-training to stay durable. Then we go deep on his JFK 50 game plan: smooth execution on the AT, a mid-race shoe swap into road foam, and a 6:30–6:40 towpath pace target backed by a simple fueling strategy of 90 grams of carbs per hour with Neversecond gels and mostly water in cool temps.
We also unpack the hard lessons from Run Rabbit Run 100 in Steamboat—cold, hail, and a cranky Achilles—and how finishing on a tough day built more confidence than any PR. Niko shares why jiu-jitsu keeps him humble, how coaching with Fastquatch helps working athletes find balance, and what’s next: Black Canyon 100K speed, a Cocodona waitlist gamble, and winter goals on the track with a sharper mile and 5K.
If you love Northeast trail running, JFK 50 strategy, technical downhill tips, or blue-collar training that actually fits a busy life, this conversation will feel like a map you can use tomorrow. Subscribe, drop a review, and share with a friend who’s eyeing a fast towpath split or their first White Mountain scramble.
Follow Niko on IG - @nikolassuave
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com!
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Lauriello, and today I'm so excited to welcome Nico Teller to the show. Nico is a Pennsylvania-based trail runner, and he kind of mixes it up both in the short trail and the long trail. I kind of took it as an opportunity this upcoming week to chat all things JFK. With JFK coming up this Saturday where Nico will be racing, I took it as an opportunity to have him on the show and talk all about the race. We got a lot into the Northeast scene. Nico's done a ton of both Pennsylvania, just Northeast in general races. Everything from the frozen snot, which is just an iconic Pennsylvania trail race, to the Heiner Trail Challenge, which is another iconic one. And Nico's also mixed it up in some of the more white mountain endurance races as well, such as the Chakora Mountain Race as well as the bald face scramble. And he and I actually had an opportunity to meet this summer at the Stark Series Killington race. Nico's got a really cool background. He's actually a former mixed martial artist. I would consider him still kind of a mixed martial artist in the sense where he still practices jujitsu, but does have a background in Muay Thai. And we talked a lot about just you know bringing that sense of dedication, commitment, and um yeah, just that background to the sport, which I think was a lot of fun. Uh you guys know me, I'm a big mixed martial arts fan. So the fact that he uh has such a background in it gave us a lot of good conversation uh that I think crossed over really well. So I hope you guys enjoyed this one. I'm a big fan of Nico's. I love putting the spotlight on the Northeast Trail scene every chance I can because it's it's just awesome. So without further ado, Nico Taylor.
SPEAKER_02:Ladies and gentlemen, sweet there we go.
SPEAKER_01:All right, Nico Teller. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00:Good, good. Thank you for having me. I agree.
SPEAKER_01:Stoked to have a conversation. Overdue for this. Oh, excuse me. Overdue for a chat. Sorry, I got a sore throat. I don't know what's going on. Um, but yeah, dude, how's your day going? How's everything going? Uh I know we're long due for a catch up. Figure like this is a good opportunity to do it on the pod. Um, yeah, how's the build going for the audience? I guess is probably a good time to talk about. You're getting ready for JFK this upcoming weekend.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Right now, uh, well, you know, my day actually, you know, just got done work. Um, for all the video people, if you can see, I'm in my browns. But um, yeah, you know, just kind of getting ready for the week. It's kind of race week for me. Been kind of dealing with a cold these last couple days. So I'm trying to shake that. But um, you know, other than that, I'm just trying to kind of get through the week and you know, trying to not let the, you know, as they call it, the taper, the, you know, all the taper tantrum or whatever, all those, you know, injuries that pop up last minute. You know, I'm trying to not let that stuff get to me. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Fair enough. Fair enough, dude. Yeah, it's always a weird week, like the week before a race. Like, you don't really like you did all this work, you're ready for it, obviously. And it's just like, all right, wait and for, dude, I'll never forget. This actually, I didn't race that much this year, obviously. And but the second race I did, I had like the night sweats the day before the night before. And like I was so like dehydrated the morning of the race, I was like, man, what the hell? So don't get the night sweats, dude.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't had that happen though. But I feel like you know, that's why I try to race more, because like just to kind of like I don't, you know, I don't feel as stressed, like the anxiety before a race, and you know, if I if you just you know race more, even though you're kind of more beat up, you know, it kind of you know, just feel a little bit better mentally.
SPEAKER_01:So for sure, for sure. All right, dude, let's take this back. I want to talk a little bit about your background. I in in my research, dude, I had no idea that you uh were into fighting and like did a bunch of fighting before you started your running career. Like maybe, maybe talk a little bit about your life in in mixed martial arts and kind of just like how you stumbled into running.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So um so pretty much that is my background. Like I grew up, my grandfather he had uh uh dojo, like a karate school. Um and then my dad, he my and then my dad took over. Um, so my pretty much my dad's side was you know, they're all from Okinawa. And uh, you know, for those people who don't know, it's a small island off of Japan. And um, and then my dad moved here when, you know, so he was born and raised there, and then he came over here when he was like 13 years old. And so, you know, my dad was pretty much, you know, like he grew up, that's what he did. And and then, you know, they had a school, and me and my brother, that's what we pretty much did. We were born and raised in a dojo, and um yeah, pretty much did that until I was pretty much in my teen years, and then I got into football, and then after football, because I did football all four years, high school, and then kind of got into started dabbling into Muay Thai and kickboxing and yeah, so uh yeah, so pretty much the background that my you know dad and what I grew up doing is called Shotokan uh you know, Shotokan Karate. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, that is so cool. All right, so I I have me, I have so many questions off of this and I'll I'll ask a bunch of them as we go, but how did it kind of segue into like how did you find the trails and just running in general? Did you find road running first and that segued into trail running, or was it trail running before roadrunning?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, so I so pretty much I started so I was doing Muay Thai up until like 2019, pretty much when like cat COVID happened, and then I was I was getting really competitive with it, like I was taking it really seriously, and then like that was my passion. And then you know, COVID happened, the gym I was training at shut down, and I just started kind of just road running, you know, it was like the only exercise that you could do at the time, and and then you know, I just fell in love with just running in general. I was like, oh my god, like I actually just love this, it's just so freeing, and and it was just a lot cheaper too, honestly. It's just like until you know I figured that you know you have to buy races and gear and all that, but you know, um, and then my first race actually was so how I got into it, my first race was a hundred miles, so that was kind of how I got into uh like trail racing, I guess you will. I never did like a 5K, like I never ran in high school or anything. So like I yeah, like I never did a 5k or a marathon. I was just I think I I saw someone do like a hundred miles and I was like, oh my god, you know, that's a thing. And then I shortly kind of just signed up for 100 miles, and I was like, you know what, like like I I probably may not complete this, but like, you know, like I'm just gonna try. And so I just gave myself a few months to train out for it, and the furthest I was running at that time was like, you know, five, six miles, and you know, and then I did like a 50 mile weekend one, you know, leading up to it. And then yeah, and then I, you know, did my first hundred miles and after that I just like fell in love with it and I completed it too, which is you know super surprising.
SPEAKER_01:That's bananas, actually.
SPEAKER_00:I've been kind I've been kind of going backwards now because now I'm like, oh my god, like you know, like I didn't know about like people, you know, race in the trails. Like I was just like totally mind blown. Like I didn't even know anything about running and yeah, so I'm learning, slowly learning, even still. Yeah, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I love it, dude. I love it. Can you maybe paint a picture for the audience that might not be familiar with like Muay Thai, like what it is with like kicking, kickboxing aspects of it? Um just because like I don't know, I love Muay Thai, I find it incredibly interesting. I think strong hips are such an important aspect of running that I think is like really slept on.
SPEAKER_00:For sure, yeah. Like in in martial arts in general, like hips are like everything. I think hips are everything in all sports in general, but um, like golf and everything. But anyways, yeah, muay thai is honestly I I love muay thai. That was probably uh my favorite martial arts style. Um, but yeah, muay thai in general is it's pretty much just like kickboxing, but using knees, elbows, um, trying to think, knees, elbows. So you put you're staying on your feet the whole time, you're clenching. Um it's it's a beautiful art form. Um, you know, I really recommend anybody. It's a great exercise to do in general. Um, I would kind of recommend say it it stylistically. It's like uh it's like sprinting them. So you know, it's just like a lot of fast-paced, um, you know, and and yeah, that's that's pretty much Muay Thai for you.
SPEAKER_01:Did did you have any goals before running to like get some fights and like try and like I don't know, like try and like make a go of it like on the regional scene? Like or did you ever fight at all?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that was that was that was my goal of mine. Um I was you know, I was getting really into it. And for you know, my dad, my so my dad used to compete he in the the late 80s to 1980s. He used to compete on on the national team, actually. He was actually ranked like seventh or eighth in the nation at the time, um, like in his prime or whatnot, in karate. Um but you know, he always was supportive of me training like different styles, but he never wanted me to like actually fight. And you know, I would spar a lot. I love sparring. And but I kind of noticed, you know, I would kind of like he would talk to me like, you know, please, you know, just you know, I just really don't want you to fight, you know, this and that. Like I I you know, he had friends that fought, and you know, he he saw what it kind of happened to them and you know, with just brain damage and whatnot. And so I was like, you know what, like, you know, maybe maybe he's kind of right. And but I just love you know, so I just continued to spar and you know, even sparring, I would get my you know, my head would be rattled, and and I was like, you know, maybe he's kind of right. Like if I keep going down this road, like I don't know, maybe I'll just kind of just lose my mind in a way, and you know, I'm not even the smartest tool in the shed. So I was like, I need my brain as much as I can. So um, so I kind of you know took his advice a little bit and and I was like, you know, I can I can still train if I want, but for me personally, like it's like I either have to go all in on like Muay Thai or pivot to all in on trail running. And I kind of just like it was hard for me to do both at the time, so I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna start new and do this new thing that I'm really passionate about now. And so that's what I did. I kind of literally just gave up on you know, Muay Thai at the time and and you know, start going all in on trail running, and I kind of haven't looked back, so and you know, I kind of miss it, you know. Like my dad, you know, he still teaches, so I'll still go over, you know, he has a dojo in his backyard, so it's pretty cool. And um, so I'll go there and hit the bag and you know, train with him, you know, here and there.
SPEAKER_01:So, but yeah. Dude, I love it, man. And the only reason I I I'm I'm such a fan, obviously. I mean, for those of you like the audience that knows me and you know, like just what I'm about. Like, I don't know, I think Michel mixed martial arts in general, just like the discipline, uh, it's just so important for life and just understanding. And uh, I don't know, I think there's a lot more to it. I think people think it's like this barbaric thing, but it's yeah, so much more an art. And there's it's three-dimensional chess, and uh yeah, it's it's special. I find it really cool. Plus, it's got a lot of crossover, dude. I mean, you going into trail running, like you probably had a significant gas tank, uh as you did. I mean, yeah, I got to see you in a race, and uh yeah, like there's you've had a lot of success on the trail. So the crossover is immense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would say honestly, it's it it's really like I compare it a lot to like if I had to compare you know MMA in general to anything, I I think trail running is like a really good crossover. Like it has so much similarities with just like the different disciplines and even like different style of running. Like you got the marathon, you got the 5K, you got then you got you know steep trail running and then dis you know descending and and and it's the same thing with mixed martial arts, you got so many different um art forms and and and you know I can list like five, six just right off the top of my head, just like trail running. And um and and I look at trail running as kind of like MMA in general as like a whole. Um, because you need all to be like, you know, like you know, like for those UFC fighters, you know, you need all those disciplines to kind of put put it together to, you know, um, you know, like jujitsu and be good on the ground and have good stand up. So yeah, I and then to be a good trail runner, you kind of need everything. You need to be speedy, you need to be good at climbing, you need to be good at you know descending. So yeah, I see I see very good similarities.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, putting it all together on race day. It's it is cool to be able to train the individual aspects and you know, at the end of the day, like you know, fitness is fitness, and you know, the tech the technical stuff I find to be the most appealing and interesting because it's like you know, if you're really proficient with technicality, doesn't matter what sport you're in, like uh basically you're just a student of the sport. And I I think the deeper you go into it, the more technical people get, and it's just it's interesting. Um, I want to pivot a little bit. So you're you're kind of a Philly boy, Pennsylvania guy. I have deep Pennsylvania roots myself. It's funny, dude. You can't hide it. Your accent, I didn't realize this when we first met uh at Sir Killington. Um, but yeah, I didn't realize like how strong your accent was. Like it's very easy to tell you are from Pennsylvania or specifically the Philly area. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about like I've just met a lot of people, and from my upbringing, I just find that area of the US to have like it's a very blue-collar, gritty type of people, like very hardworking. Can you can you talk a little bit about that and just like see it? Yeah, talk about that that area of the of the states.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. You know, so I mean, I honestly don't know anything really different because I was born and raised in kind of just right here in Pennsylvania, right outside of Philly, uh, about 45 minutes in a small town called Potts Town. Um, but yeah, so you know, a lot of blue-collar workers, you know, my dad blue is a blue-collar worker, a lot of my friends are, I am. Um, so you know, it's it's it's it's really inspiring too at the same time because I have a bunch of like friends that I work out with, like track guys, um, that just you know, they have families and then they just go and grind all day at work, and you know, and it's just really inspiring. So to be around those type of people that just go and get it. Um, you know, I love it, honestly. And um yeah, uh but for st for for steep stuff, it's not really ideal um in my region right now. So it's you know, there's not big mountains where I'm at. Like I have to kind of travel a bit. So like I can get, you know, luckily where I'm at right now, like I live right across like a s the smallest ski resort probably in the world. It's like from the bottom to the top, it's like not even 400 feet. Um, but luckily, you know, it's right there out my front door, and I can just do hill repeats on it. Um, so that's where a lot of people from this area they do, they just get used to just doing hill repeats. And instead of just doing big long climbs, which you know, I, you know, people get, you know, I'm just not as lucky with that. But you know, you just gotta make do what you got. So that's you gotta be grateful for this.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's what I was kind of getting at too, dude. Is like, you know, you don't need all the fancy bells and whistles to be a good athlete. Like, fitness is fitness, like there's many ways to show up to erase fit, especially in the Northeast scene, which we'll get to, but I don't know. I just find it um, I don't know, like inspiring. It was really fun in this JFK block to follow your Strava and just putting in, stacking in days, and like we could talk about like what you do for a living, and like how are you able to because I I find this really interesting, and I think a lot of the audience will get a kick out of this because most of the audience aren't professional athletes, they're not you know just dedicating their life to training, they're working full-time day jobs and trying to fit their passions and running on top of it. How is it how does it work for you? Are you an AM guy where you're sticking in the miles like before work and then getting to get into your job and then putting in miles after? Like, how do you find balance in it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, no, I um I'm mostly an AM guy. Like, I mean, just with my work schedule, if it's like I'm so right now I'm I'm a UPS driver, been a UPS driver for the last 10 years. Um, so it's a pretty physical job. So by the by the by the time work is done, I'm pretty, pretty dead. Um, so I usually try to get my workouts in the morning time. But if I don't, I'll do my workouts in you know in the evening time. Like I've still have no problem to get after it. But you know, if so I find, you know, I'm sure a lot of people are listening probably do have full-time jobs, but you know, you just gotta enjoy enjoy it, you know. So I just really enjoy getting after it. And that's just how I've always been. And I know I find a lot of happiness in that. And like just with discipline, you know, also it just makes you a better person. So I know sometimes doing the hard thing sucks, but in the moment, it's just like it's gonna, it builds character, and you know, it's just you know, kind of what I always what I always been like. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now for your job, lots of sitting, standing, walking, carrying, like there's you're never you're you're you're moving a lot. So like I I I always find like I don't know, I have some theories in this that like it contributes to making you a better athlete because you're you're just moving all day. Like there's not not a lot of sitting in front of a computer, right? Um, would you agree with that? Like that adds to some fatigue. Um like you're able to not get fatigued as quick because you're able to stand on your feet for a long period of time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I would 100% agree. Like, you know, being a UPS driver is probably the best training for like an ultra trail runner. Like it's it's honestly underrated. There's not many of us though, because no one really wants to like go run before or after work or even work out. So like a lot of guys at my work think, you know, I'm crazy. So, you know, but it's okay. But um, but yeah, it's a lot of like I deliver, you know, pretty much about like you know, 180 to 200 stops a day and you know, 300 plus packages. So it's it's constantly you're just up and down, up and you know, running up driveways, and it's you know, I think I clocked it one day, um, and it was like seven or eight miles just you know, by the end of the day. So, you know, I still get my miles in, my steps in. Um, so I count that in a lot for training. And uh, but you know, the only downside is that I'm not re probably recovering as good because I'm constantly, you know, just beating my body up and moving and my knees, you know, probably my knees take the most of it because, you know, um kind of stepping in my truck um constantly and then stop stepping out. Um but I I mostly just look at it as like, you know, it's just all part of training. It's just all part of training. So I use I usually always just try to keep a positive mindset about it. And uh yeah, I think it makes me a better athlete for sure. So I got another buddy of mine who I he kind of as soon as he he he kind of told me the ropes about trail running, and he's another UPS driver of mine. So, you know, shout out to Derek, Derek Schultz, you know, he's like kind of an OG in the trail running space, and um, you know, he kind of told me all the ways about it, but he's also another UPS driver of mine. So but I think I think we're like the only two out there.
SPEAKER_01:So there's some guys in Colorado, dude. A shout out, I think his name's Tyler Veerman. I haven't had him on the pod yet, but I am aware of him. Like he competes on the short trail scene. Oh, nice, and he's a UPS driver as well. So there's there's a few guys like floating around, and dude, he's another one, he's fucking ripped, dude. The guy's in insane shape, yeah. Like, probably this is a little weird to say, but like definitely one of the best physiques in trail running. The dude is in insane shape, so yeah. So there's a few of you floating around. Okay, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You guys got uh Jake Jake Jackson out there too. Shout out to Jake, yeah. Yeah, I met him before, so he's cool. Yeah, no, Jake's cool.
SPEAKER_01:He was just on Francesco's podcast. Yeah, I listened to that trail. Yeah, yeah, Saul Badger.
SPEAKER_00:But he's he's uh um what you call it, like those big tractor trailer drivers, you know. So he drives so he's not really like a package driver, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so there's there's a difference. There you go. Yeah, no, I mean I dude, I find the the getting up and getting out. And do you just like eat all the time? Like how do you like maintain are you always at a calorie deficit or are you just constantly eating?
SPEAKER_00:I just I just feel like I'm constantly eating, honestly, because I'm just burning constantly. But you know, they require us, you know, so it's it, you know, they they require us to take a 30-minute lunch. Most of us never take any lunch um because we're just you know, we'll just eat as we as we drive or as we go. Um, but yeah, I just kind of eat all day, I feel like. So and I never gain any weight because then I'm just exercising when I'm done work. So yeah. Are you are you a big Wawa guy?
SPEAKER_01:Gotta ask that question.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, big Wawa guy. Got I got one or I got one on my route, so you know, definitely gotta stop there. But you know, I think if anything, I'm more of a big pizza guy. Like I have two pizzarias on my route and they know my name. Like they're just like, yeah, like you want two mushroom slices, you know. Like I I go there at least once a day and get two mushroom slices. Like it's it's my thing.
SPEAKER_01:So are you uh are you a sandwich guy too? Like are you a cheesesteak kind of kind of dude? Like hoagies, like first of all, you don't call it a sub, you call it a hoagie, right?
SPEAKER_00:Hoagie, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's like uh, you know, Philly thing, but yeah, I got gotta get my hoagie. But no, dude, wawas hoagies. Um, for who anyone who has wawas hoagies, the best hoagies. Um but yeah, no, cheesesteaks, I love it all, especially out here in Philly. But I can't eat that during the day, otherwise I'm you know, I'm just done. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, all right, let's shift gears. I want to talk about the northeast trail running scene. Yeah. Um you know, I've had quite a few Northeast guys on the on the podcast, and I always love to, you know, to just kind of throw some love towards the Northeast Trail Running scene. Dude, your season's been awesome, man. You went up and raced Chakora this year. Uh I want to hear all about the bald face race that you did, the bald face scramble. Obviously, you're at Cirque Series Killington, where you and I had a chance to meet. Like, what stands out to you about like the short trail scene? Because I I feel like in the Northeast, if you're motivated enough, like you can make an entire like short trail season rather than in the Northeast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I I I kind of found um so there's uh a nice Cirque not Cirque series, um, a nice series up in New Hampshire that's called the White Mountain Endurance Cup series. And I think it was just kind of new this year, maybe it's two years new. Um, but I did that this past year. Didn't do it all because I kind of got injured like in the summertime. But uh so yeah, I did Shakara and then the bald face, and then there's also so the Jigger Johnson 20 Mile, and then they have Kilkenny, um, I think 29K or 25K. Um, so it's four four races, four trail races, um, that are all just gnarly, like just it's around like 25, 29k with like five to six thousand feet of gain in the White Mountains. And uh so I did a couple of them already. And uh yeah, that Jacara and Baldface one um were super gnarly. I mean, that was kind of my first time running in the White Mountains. I've never really been out there. Like I've kind of always just gone to like Vermont, the Catskills, and um, but so it was nice actually going out there in the whites. Um, and dude, I fell in love with it, honestly. Just I I I'm I plan on going out there at least once or twice in the summertime now, and um, you know, even trying to do one of the races out there. But uh yeah, that's short stuff now. I just I couldn't believe that they have stuff that short and distance, but like so punchy, so just steep, you know, and technical and brutal, like just the the roots and and the gnarliness of the trail were just it was it it just felt like this shouldn't be a thing. Like it was like people, you know, like I'm surprised people are not like you know killing each you know, dying out here because it's just yeah, I see people running so fast on it. It's just and then it's motivating because then it makes me want to just like all right, you know, if they if they're doing it, then I can just like throw myself off the mountain. But so yeah, it's it's cool.
SPEAKER_01:It is cool, it is cool. Let's I want to hear more about the bald face race because like that is something I've been intrigued on. I don't know if I'd be more interested in like the longer one, the 29k or the 14. Um, but it seems like it's a very aesthetic route, like lots of good scrambling. Um, how do you prepare for the technicality of a race like this? Are you just more let's just get fit and hope for the best? Or like are you trying to find some more technical Rudy trails in the area that you can maybe practice on?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, leading up to those races and those race series, I was at I was honestly getting out in the Catskills, um, getting on the AT, like where I'm at, I'm about 50 minutes from the the AT, which you know, getting on the AT where I'm at is just as gnarly as it gets too. So um running on there, doing my long runs on there, um, and then just finding a nice steep hill, and then just getting used to that technicality of running up and down. And um, so that's what I pretty much was doing months before these races, and I found that I'm I'm actually really good on technical stuff. And and I was like, you know what, like I'm this is this might be a thing for me. So I kind of leaned into it more, and and I noticed, especially after Chicaro's race, like how good I was even on the technical downhill. I was like, oh my god, like because I was passing people, you know, they would pass me up, and then I would just catch them, you know, I'd pass them back on the down, and I was like, you know, I think I'm way better. Like I that's when I kind of realized that I'm a lot better on the technical downhills. And um, so yeah, and so but with the bald face, to answer your question, with the bald face, that race. Um I'm trying to I'm I I get them kind of confused in in my brain uh with like Chicago and Baldface, but I'm pretty sure it rained the whole time at Baldface. So like it was kind of disappointing because like you know, once you you know you're climbing, you know, two, three thousand feet to get to the top and then there's no view, which kind of stinks. But uh um but it's just yeah, I like it it was just so cool how just like like these classic, they just made these like classic routes into um with with just the slabs of rock too on like I didn't realize how slabby the rocks and once you get to the top, but um yeah, just the up downs and um it was just it was that race in particular, the bald face was probably one of my favorites. Um it was just very beautiful, and I can tell with even without the views, I was just like, oh my god, I gotta come back here. So um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, you and I had a chance to meet at Cirque Series Killington. It was awesome, it was a horrible race for. Me obviously because I hadn't run in two months, but it was it still had a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00:You did the you did the preview the day before. I was like, oh my god, dude. Like, and you did like the pretty much the same exact time I remember. I was like, dude, that's that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it was horrible. I I I might go back this year. I'm not really sure. Because I know like I'll take, I mean, I think I could run probably like an hour, maybe a little longer than an hour on that course. And I think my time was like an hour 31 or something like that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, dude, it was like the the last uh I don't know. You remember that last like grassy knoll we had to like go up? Um I was cramping so bad on that. I like got halfway up and then turned around, went back to the eight station, asked the lady if she could drive me to the start or like to the start so I could quit. And she was like, no, like you're right there, just go finish. So I basically just walked it in. It was honestly so much fun. Um yeah, I'm hope hoping to get back for another Northeast race this year because I I can't like leave that bad taste in my mouth. You had a great finish there. I think you were what top 10 in in your division. Um, you know, I think you ran like what 115, 116, which is an excellent time for that course. Um, dude, talk about that race. Like, how fun was that course? Oh my god. I'm so happy the Cirque series is in the Northeast now.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, yeah. Like, I the the reason why I honestly found about the Cirque series was because of you and your podcast, honestly. So I'm you know really thankful about that for you to kind of put in that out there. So yeah, it was it was the best time I probably had in so long. I was just like just smiling for the whole time. And it it was hard too, which you know, you know, but I love that in general. But um being yeah, I'm definitely coming back, you know, probably every year for that Killington one. Um, you know, I hope there is more on the East Coast. I know there is another one in New Hampshire that I have to go to. It's like the week before or something, or two weeks before. Um, but yeah, with the Killington though, that's that area is so beautiful and green and luscious. And I I was I was hoping it would be more technical though. Once we got to the top, I was like, oh yes, you know, like I finally got on like the technical stuff, and then it lasted for like 10 seconds, and then I was like, oh shit.
SPEAKER_01:But then you're on a road, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I was like, all right.
SPEAKER_01:I think Dan ran sub 14 minutes in the 5k on on that road, which is stupid. Disgusting, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, that was beautiful. So I'm definitely coming back, and you know, I brought my girlfriend at the time, and you know, I was like, you gotta do this. So I'm I'm gonna bring friends next time. Um yeah, so trying to come back.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, now fiance, correct?
SPEAKER_00:Congratulations, yeah, yeah. Thank you, thank you. So congrats. Big news, big news.
SPEAKER_01:Um, all right, let's shift gears, let's pivot. I want to talk about JFK. Um, obviously, this is not your first time you're racing JFK, despite of the fact that you might be feeling uh a little bit of the taper tantrums. Your Strav has looked great, dude. Your build has looked amazing. Um, obviously, you've got a great opportunity this year to run a good time. First of all, like what do you have in your mind as far as time that you're targeting? And uh what's the plan and goals for for this race?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so this is my third time that I'm gonna be running JFK. So I absolutely kind of love this race. It's just, you know, I'm not a big, I haven't done a marathon yet, so it's kind of like my marathon, as you will. And it's right before Thanksgiving, so I love that. It's only like two hours from me. Um, so it's a good just last-minute banger. Just, you know, throw it all out there. Um, and a bunch of all my friends just always do it too. But uh yeah, for time-wise, I'm shooting for like low 16 or not 16, low six hours is kind of my time goal. Um like last year in particular, I ran I ran like 702, seven hours pretty much. Um, but I did Javelina 100 like four weeks before then. Um and so I didn't I wasn't really recovered. But um, so yeah, I'm hoping I'm feeling really, really good this year. Um, you know, other than kind of having a sore throat, but I'm hoping by the start line, I'm feeling, you know, that that will be shaken off. But um, you know, the kind of the plan is to I actually have someone going out, like a buddy of mine that's kind of crewing. Um, and we're two of my buddies were kind of running as a team. They're they're they're they have like team events there now, which is really cool. You can run as like a team. So uh two of my other buddies, you know, we're kind of around my speed. We're gonna we're all we're we're one as a team, so shout out to the bear right guys. Um but uh so yeah, I plan on you know trying to get through that AT section. So the first the first 15 miles are on the AT, and then it's pretty much like a marathon on like gravel toe path. So like just pancake flat. Um you know, a marathon plus. I think it's like 30 miles, 30 plus miles maybe. Um but it's just it's just pancake flat. So I plan on just switching into my road shoes. I've never done that before. I've always just kept my trail shoes on because I never really had anyone out with me crewing, so I just made do. Um so I'm hoping this year switching the road shoes is gonna help me run a little bit faster. So um, yeah, kind of shooting to hold like a 630 pace, 640 pace on the on the tote path for about 30 30-ish miles, and then after the tote path, um you you just kind of get in the country roads into the finish. So it's kind of just a little little ups and downs, nothing crazy. Um but yeah, it's about eight miles to the finish after that. And yeah, hoping to shoot for like low six hours. That's kind of the goal.
SPEAKER_01:So dude, that's fast as shit. That's an awesome time, too. Like if you can run that, that's firmly top, I don't know. Is that top 15, top 25, something like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, at least top 20. It's crazy how fast it's getting now. Like, you know, just a year or two ago, like that would be like top 10. But now, dude, every like top 15 guys are running sub six hours, so it's it's just keeps getting faster and faster. And uh yeah, I'm it's I'm excited to see what like those uh the front of the pack does if they really just kill each other and kind of go low, low fives.
SPEAKER_01:But uh that's so fast, dude. I can't like David Sinclair is such a goddamn animal. He'll be there again this year. I think he just announced it today that he'll be back and yeah, I don't know. I don't think Eli's gone. We'll see what happens. But I mean, dude, six hours is a like low six is a very respectable time. Um it's gonna be cool to see that. What what uh if you don't mind me asking, what shoes? Like, are you gonna just switch into like super shoes? Um, or you like a specific road shoe? Like, what are you gonna swap into?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I haven't really decided um too much. Um, so I I well I was gonna for the trail section, dude. I love the lot the Love Sportiva um um I forget what they're called. Um, not the the the Max. Is that what they're called? The prodigio maxes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what I've been rocking lately, and I love them. I just I just wore them for my last race, uh, actually, yeah, run rabbit out in Colorado. But um, yeah, they're they're super comfy. Um, so I plan on running in those on the AT and then switching into either just like a comfy pair of just road shoes that I just casually run in. Um or I have a pair of super shoes, but my super shoes are like a year and a half old, and I don't know how many miles I have on them. Um probably like you know, it's getting up to like probably close to like a thousand. So, you know, I'm hoping I might just try to run with them and just you know, probably toss them afterwards. So, you know, give them a good last last run.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, as long as they don't fall apart. Dude, I I honestly I've done the same thing. I think my I have like these Sauconya Dorphin elites or something like that. I can't remember if they're the pros of the elites, they're like the super cushy fat boys, yeah. Dude, I fucking love those shoes, dude. They're amazing. They're so oh they're the best.
SPEAKER_00:I got the A6 um uh meta meta speeds, and dude, for some you know, just with the price of them, I cannot seem I just don't want to throw them away. Like, I'm just like I can't. Like I I paid so much for these, and uh I just even though they have so much miles on it, I'm just like I just I don't want to get rid of them. And that's just like kind of you know a bad side of me, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, dude, the other thing too is like I don't know, I I I'm not a shoe snob in any way, so like I can't tell the difference between like a pair of sock knees that are super thick that like have I don't know like 300 miles on them versus a fresh pair out the box. Like, I it's once you're you're in your run and adrenaline's going, like you can't feel it. Yeah, I can't.
SPEAKER_00:And everything's hurting, you know. Yeah, yeah. So and I don't I don't keep track of I don't know if you do, but I dude, I I have a bad habit, dude. I just don't keep track of my miles on my shoes, and which I probably should, but I just I just go by feel, but or like only ones I do are my Sportiva Parigio Pros.
SPEAKER_01:I like will write the date down on on them because I don't track an Instrava when I probably should because like I'm constantly like rotating shoes. Like I'll go like I have Parrigio Pros that I'll race in and train in for like my like my workout workouts like on trails. But like this time of the year, I'm not really doing a lot of trail workouts, I'm doing more road stuff, so or really, really technical stuff. So that'll be like mutants, like sportiva mutants, and then for the road stuff, um even on like dirt roads, I'll wear the the sockanies just because you can run a lot more miles and you can absorb a lot more and run faster. So it's like why am I gonna wear anything with lesser uh cushion? So I don't, yeah, I don't track anything, or at least I try to sometimes. What's the uh what's the nutrition strategy for your race? Are you like every 30, 45 minutes a gel? Are you doing liquid calories? Like what's what's your plan?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I've been so I've been I'm I'm hooked on these never seconds. I'm actually uh an ambassador for them. So um I'm again uh pretty much all year, just it's just been never second gels. And so that's what I pretty much take for all my runs. Um I plan on probably taking three gels an hour, which is about 90 grams. Um, so that's kind of my plan. And yeah, so every 20 minutes, and then I'm honestly gonna keep it pretty simple. Like I might just kind of just keep it water because with these never seconds, it already has sodium in it. Um so I might just kind of keep it simple because since it's a little cooler. Um sometimes I just crave for water, and then I might just, you know, maybe at eight stations, just kind of fill up every here and there if I need it with whatever they have for liquid-wise, but yeah, just never second water pretty much.
SPEAKER_01:So it's the way to go, especially like if it you get a cool, cool day. Like, I don't know, it's so much better than like rent running at altitude where you have to like really pay attention to like your water consumption.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Like I I try to dial it in. It's just you know, dude, when you you after after like the first hour, dude, I don't even my mind just like, did I just take a gel like 10 minutes ago or was it like 45 minutes ago? I can do I it's so hard to keep track to it.
SPEAKER_01:You I just figured the I'm an idiot, dude. I just figured out that I can like put the timer on my watch in the sense where like it'll alert me every 20 minutes or 40 minutes. Like I just set mine to like 40 minutes for long runs for gels, and I was like, oh dude, this is great. Like I was practicing it with my long run on Saturday. I was like, every 40 minutes it lets me know that I can I can take a gel.
SPEAKER_00:Uh uh I'll have to look into that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Highly recommend. What kind of watch do you use? Do you guard?
SPEAKER_00:I got a chorus.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, chorus is perfect for it. That's what I use.
SPEAKER_00:So I'll have to look into that then.
SPEAKER_01:It lets you know, yeah. Technology, dude, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. But some but sometimes it's just um I feel like that's will it also throw me off then too? Because it'll be maybe it buzzes every 20 minutes or 30 minutes, and I'm like, it's only been that long, you know? Like, oh yeah, true. You know, like it's a long way. Sometimes you just want to be locked in and I don't know, just not keep track of time, but also you have to keep track of time. It's like a weird balance, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's true, it's true. Yeah, it's I don't know. I've never ran anything under 31 miles or over 31 miles, so I have no idea. And the last time I ran 31 miles was like 2020, like something like that. So I don't remember what it's like. Uh dude, you went out to uh you went out to Colorado this year and uh decided to test yourself at um run rabbit. How was that experience, dude? Did you do you have a good time there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude. Actually, that was my first time in Colorado. So um I was I was just you know, I couldn't believe that was my first time. I'm like, you know, I'm already in my late 20s and I haven't been out in Colorado. So that was one of the reasons why I signed up for that race. I was like, I gotta go out there. Um and I absolutely loved it. I don't know if you've ever been out there in steamboat, but um, it was beautiful, but also just it was the weather that weekend was pretty gnarly. It was just super cold and raining and hailing, it was storming and it was just very wild. But um, you know, luckily I survived it, got through it. I finished. It was my slowest 100-mile finish ever, but I was so proud of it. And um, yeah, and also I was like kind of injured too, so I didn't like even have like a tr like a great training block leading up to it. Like I was just like running like 20, 30 mile weeks, and I was like, all right, I'm just gonna wing it. But luckily, luckily I I made it, and you know, sometimes that's all that matters, and you know, that's why I like to do at least do these longer things. And then like the shorter stuff for me, it's just like you know, trying to it's like the you know, that competit more competitive and you know to feed that fire.
SPEAKER_01:So Yeah, it's like track meet. What um what have you been dealing with what were you dealing with injury-wise? What'd you do?
SPEAKER_00:So my Achilles, it was kind of right after Killington actually. Um it was kind of flaring even then, but right after Killington, uh, my Achilles was just it it it just I never had any injuries previous to this, so I was just like, well, you know, what's what's going on? This and that. And it was both my Achilles actually on both my feet, and it was just it it hurt very bad. Um, so I was kind of trying to run through it a little bit, but then luckily that's when I got a bike. I was like, all right, I gotta start cross-training, and you know, and then I bought myself a gravel bike and then fell in love with that, and then I was like, yeah, so that's when I kind of started cross-training. Um, but yeah, it was my Achilles, and luckily it's not bothering me right now, so it kind of kind of, you know, it's been good.
SPEAKER_01:So nice, dude. I I want you to know something about the bike stuff. Like every time you'll put on like your story or on I'll say on Strava, you'll post these like 60, 70 mile rides. That gives me such a fire, dude. I'm like, oh, I I gotta get after it. What am I doing with my life? So like you're you've motivated me sometimes too, because like I'll get lazy. I'll like Michelino will give me like a three-hour ride, and sometimes I'll only do like an hour and a half or two hours, and then I'll see you just like throw up a casual 70-mile ride. I'm like, son of a bitch, I gotta get after it. What am I doing?
SPEAKER_00:So I appreciate the uh no, I appreciate that. No, dude, riding. I wish I would have bought a bike so much longer ago. I was like, dude, what the hell? Like, I should have done this so much longer ago, but it's so fun, dude. You get to just like you know, see so much more, you know, and there's a lot of good. So I got a gravel bike, and there's you know, it's got a lot of good gravel area where I'm at. So I'm pretty pretty lucky when it comes to that.
SPEAKER_01:So is it like where you're at general, like in just in general, do you get a lot of like dirt roads and stuff like that, like you can get on, or is it more like when I think of like the I granted, I haven't been back there in a long time, but like the greater Philly area, I think of like it's more hustle and bustle, more people busy, or are you a little more like further back and removed from all that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'm kind of I'm kind of in like the outskirts, like I'm kind of in a nice um like I'm not in a busy area, as you will. Like I'm so I would you know, I don't know if uh I was gonna reference some areas, but I'm like no one's gonna know where where that's at. But yeah, I'm just kind of more in like the country, like I guess you would say like country-ish, you know, but yeah, definitely not in the hustle and bustle. Um, you know, I where I work though, I work um in Westchester, and that's a little bit more busier. Like I kind of have to drive through like King of Prussia, you know, that area. Um, but that's where I kind of do some workouts at like Valley Forge, and um, you know, it just gets a little busy there, especially on the weekends. And um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So where I'm to fair you ever been to Fairless Hills?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I never even heard that.
SPEAKER_01:That's yeah, that's where I'm from. It's like Bucks County, but like more you ever like Levitown, Bucks County. Is it like Quakertown? Like yeah, yeah, Quakertown's not far from there. Um damn, what is the name of that place? I'm trying to remember. There's a damn good restaurant called like Isaac Newton's, Sir Isaac Newton's that we I'd go to as a kid. That was like in Oh, Newtown. Do you ever go to like Newtown? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or Doylstown. Doy's my aunt and uncle used to live in Doylestown, which is a great spot. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's not too far from me, actually. So, you know, where where I do a lot of my training, I don't know if you've ever been to like um like Blue Mountain up there in like the Lehigh Lehigh area. Um, there's a there's a nice like the AT is kind of out there and some some decent steep, steep climbs.
SPEAKER_01:So how are they like the ski resorts? You ever go run around like any of like the Pocono ski resorts and stuff like that? Or is that like kind of like the Catskills or maybe smaller?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's it was just yeah, it's kind of like a mini cat skills, like a mini, yeah. There's nothing like I said, there's like I can get an hour from here, it's like 800 feet, is probably just from an hour from here. And um, other than that, you know, I kind of have to do a little like two, three hours if I want to get you know at least 1500. But if I'm driving three hours, I'm going into cat skills. Um, but yeah, so I spent a lot of time up there, and um but yeah, and I recently just built um I so I have a Toyota Tacoma and I recently just built um like a bed platform kind of in the back of my truck, so it's easier for me now to just like on the weekends, just drive up somewhere up in the mountains, sleep in my truck and do a nice training, training weekend, and so pretty lucky with that. Nice, nice.
SPEAKER_01:That's the way to go, dude. I gotta introduce you. I gotta introduce you to my brother-in-law Joey, who lives in he's in upstate New York, up uh more like highland area, like in the Hudson Valley, like right outside of the Catskills. And uh yeah, he trains he trains trails and he does a lot more road stuff now. But yeah, he'd be actually. Did you get a chance to meet? He was at the race. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Curly haired dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He was so happy he beat you. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Fucking Joey. God damn it. Everybody beat me. Um, but yeah, I'll never live that down. Um, yeah, dude, Francesco did a whole podcast on that. Yeah, yeah. I forgot, yeah, I forgot. What of my one of my better days? Um, yeah. Oh, dude. So it's cool. I I I like that there's access up there, and they're like you can there's stuff to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and there's and there's also you know, great races in this um, I know Ben Robinson kind of touched on it a bit, you know. Um, but great races out here in in in Pennsylvania in general, and especially like that north central PA section, like you know, you got Frozen Snot, uh, which I just you know I did that this past year. Such a gnarly course.
SPEAKER_01:Um talk about that. I was gonna ask you about Frozen Snot.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Um, dude, it's uh they they call it the the hardest half a marathon in the world. That's what they kind of advertise it as. And you know, it definitely is. And so it's 13 miles with 6,000 feet of gain. And the time of year they do it, I think it's like January, February, the time of the year they do it. So it's just like so icy, or just there's there's always snow on the ground. Like it's and the terrain is so gnarly, it's just rocks, like it's just bouldering rocks, and there's even ropes for the descending. So like you know, like it's steep when there's you have ropes, you know, like that you have to descend. So it's it's just pretty gnarly. So um and luckily I I you know that was my first time running it this past year, and I got third place, and uh I was pretty pretty proud proud about that one. And uh and yeah, so that's a tough race.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, Zach Miller made that race kind of famous. He was talking about it long ago. And uh I think him and Matthias, I think it was Matthias Lipschitz as well, who went out there and yeah, Matt Matt Lipsy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. That's that's funny, dude. Um, the course itself, it's like, is it all boulders? Because that's the only photos I see are like just like straight slabs of wall that is just straight up basically boulder hopping.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you have a good, you have a good lot of bit that's just kind of just you're just climbing rocks, you know, you're just going up rocks and then going down rocks. Um, you know, and then most of it's just kind of just really techy, techy, rocky terrain. Um, so it's not all bouldering, but you know, you got a decent of it bouldering. So yeah, you get used to MPA, so you know, with the name of Roxylvania and whatnot, but it's uh yeah, it's pretty cool. So and they have a great they have a lot of great race series too. Um the Roxylvania and Run PA um that they host, like Heiner and Um This is another great race, the Heiner Trail Challenge. Yep, and then you know, like Boulder Beast. Uh there's a lot just in that Lockhaven area. So it's it's nice.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful, beautiful area. Yeah, dude. What what's next for you after JFK, like for 2026? Do you have anything like stands out on the calendar that you're super excited for and are gonna be training for?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I mean, as of right now, just what's on the calendar is I'm planning on going to Black Canyon, um, 100K. Um, so that's kind of the plan right now. And then I'm on the I'm on the wait list for Cocodona, so I'm I think I might try to do that again as well. Um, and then not sure what after that. I got a lot of weddings to go to in the summertime, so I'm kind of just playing around. Definitely I'd like to go to uh the Killington Cirque series. So that's that's a goal of mine. And then another probably um, you know, race up in New Hampshire. But um, but yeah, for this winter time, honestly, I might just kind of I like to do an off season a bit, you know, like to just like switch it up a bit. Like last winter, I I did an indoor mile for the first time. I've never ran a mile before. And dude, I freaking loved it. And so I might I might try to do that again this winter and just kind of just maybe do a fast mile or 5k just to kind of you know switch it up. Because I never, you know, I never did track or cross country in high school, so it kind of just like you know, it just you know feels good when you don't don't you know do something and uh yeah, I'd like to get my 5k down a little bit, and so is my mile. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, I love it. Those are great goals, and it's so much fun to like try and target those things and try and get like I don't know, some people are born like with a lot of fast twitch, some people are slow twitch, so it's it's fun to like work on those different muscle groups and and be good at different stuff. So yeah, I I I'm all for it, man. It's gonna be sorry, my dog's like attacking me right now. It's gonna be fun to follow along. Um, dude, you just you've been coaching. Uh talk about that a little bit. Like, I know you were you're a coach. How have you liked bit doing it? And and you know, what's your what's your thoughts on that right now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I kind of just recently started doing that not too long ago, you know, last few months. I absolutely love it. I was just kind of like, I just want to help others. That was kind of my main goal. And a good buddy of mine, um uh Caleb Stevens, he kind of hit me up and was like, hey, like you want you want to, you know, coach with me. And I was like, you know, hell yeah. You know, so I kind of went on, you know, he's a co-founder of Fastquatch, which is a company I'm kind of working for right now. And it's, you know, what he's doing is so great. And um, you know, just kind of slowly getting into it and um kind of you know, trying to I'm looking at it as kind of long term, like I'm kind of just you know, it's something I can do after retirement, you know, it's just such a good thing to to know and to learn. And um, I've just been loving the process of it. So um, you know, and I've always just been coaching, you know, my now fiance, I've been coaching her. So um it's just uh yeah, just kind of loving it.
SPEAKER_01:So I love it, dude. All right, all right. Are you taking any athletes at the moment? Like if they wanna, if anyone's interested and want to get in contact with you, I is there I could put that in the show notes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, sweet, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:All right, last question. Did you did you catch UFC 322 this last past weekend?
SPEAKER_00:You know, so I haven't been keeping up with it too much, you know, because I just I'm cheap, man. I just you know, I don't pay for pay-per-views anymore, but I have I I do watch the highlights, I do watch the day after and all, you know, what happened and whatnot. I do keep up with it, you know, but dude, some crazy fights though, which I was Are you are you a Bo Nickel guy? Uh dude, I love Bo Nickel. Yeah, dude. I I can't believe that head kicked though. I was like, dude, freaking wrestler, just you know, kicking people now.
SPEAKER_01:But so uh not to segue too much. I've been up like one of the things, and I kind of alluded to this first thing in the podcast was talking about hips, and like that has plagued me for like my entire running career. I've had weak hips, and I I have become obsessed with like trying to get strong hips lately just because it's like all right, I feel like that's such a strong key. If you can get really strong hips, it's gonna help so much with rotation and just running and getting faster, things like that. And dude, it just amazes me how some dudes can like get their leg up there to kick someone in the face like that. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:It's yeah, it's it's you know, a lot of people aren't even that flexible. It's more of like just like you said, it's like in it's on the hips, it's just that twerk, and it's just yeah, it's it's it's really impressive, especially what he did, you know, just effortless. You know, a lot of those guys, you know, they just do it effortless, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Straight up sent that guy into the dark dimension.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Yeah, I would say that's dude, second best sport, second best sport, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:You know, besides trail running, 100%. If I that that's what I would have done with my life had like I, I don't know, found it earlier. Like, I think I would have gotten more into like wrestling in high school and like things like that, and then probably taking it to like trying to strangle people. That sounds like a lot of fun. Trail running is great too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude. Speaking of that, I actually just recently started getting into jujitsu jujitsu, so I'm kind of you know, now dabbling into that, and I'm like, dude, this is such a good workout. I'm like, uh, feels so good being you know in a gi again. And um, I'm just kind of hoping I don't get injured, but it's like I don't care at this point. It's just such a such a useful tool and good exercise. Dude, I because I dread getting in the gym, so I'm like, what you know, what else is there? And I'm like, all right, jujitsu, you know, it's a good workout.
SPEAKER_01:But oh my god, it's stupid, crazy, like good workout. And I don't know, I think there's something too about like you choking people out and people choking you out. Like it kind of sets the you know what I'm saying? Like it sets the you you you never get too confident, but you you never get like down on yourself, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's like you kind of understand the pecking order and it's uh yeah, it's the same thing, it's like a chess game, you know, it's that same, but you know, same kind of same thing with trail running as well. It's like, you know, kind of that, you know, friendly rivalry, you know, um, you know, good respect out of it. So it's you feel good after it. It's good.
SPEAKER_01:Are you are you a super competitive person?
SPEAKER_00:You know, I would I would say I would say I'm like moderate, honestly. Like I'm okay like getting beat up. That's the thing. Like I don't need to win. Like I'm like, all right, like I'll take I'll you know, I'm I can take it, I can take an L, you know, like and I can be okay with it. So, you know, it's I think that just comes with just losing a lot, like you know, like sparring, you know, and whatnot, and knowing that it's never the best. So it was just yeah, you get used to just getting beat up. And I have an older brother, always used to just beat me up. And um, so I would say, you know, not terribly competitive, but like, you know, I'm pretty competitive at the same time. Like, I'll give it my all, you know, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Yeah, it's it's I don't know. I feel like it's it's gotta be, I think it's 50% like nature versus nurture kind of thing, where like you're born with it, like half of it, and I think the rest of it is like how you're brought up. Like some people are like psychos, dude. I've had some crazy people on the podcast, and I'm like, you're a sociopath. Like, how do you get a get away with being that crazy about competition?
SPEAKER_00:No, I seriously, like, there's even people in like jujitsu who like just won't tat. Like, it's just like, dude, just tat, you know, like tap or die, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's just you know, people, yeah, there's just some crazy people out there, just like like just dogs who just won't quit. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean you you brought up jujitsu. Like I tell my wife all the time, like when running is over for me, whenever that happens, that's the first thing I'm gonna do is probably start doing jujitsu. But the the thing I'm worried about is like I'm like an angry driver, so the last thing I need is like to be choking people out or getting choked out. It's like not a good idea, you know. She's maybe you should rethink that. Maybe you think that's something maybe something a little calmer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But it helps, you know, just get your anger out. So, you know, it could work, work, work in your favor. So that's true.
SPEAKER_01:You never. Know. You never know. Uh all right, dude. I think we're pretty close to an hour now. I think it's a good place to stop. We'll pick it up uh we'll pick it up after the summer when uh everything's said and done and we get a few more races and chat about it.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, absolutely, man. I really appreciate it, you know. Like like I said, dude, I've been listening to your podcast for over a year now, and um dude, you kind of got me into these subultra stuff, and I was just like mind blown that there was you know stuff that short and steep, and I was like, dude, I gotta do this stuff, man. And it's just it's it's cool, man. So I really appreciate what what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01:So dude, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate you listening, I appreciate you following the pod. Appreciate, you know, every now and then we'll we'll strike up a conversation and it's always a good one. So dude, best of luck this weekend at JFK. I hope you absolutely demolish your time and uh get something you're proud of out there, and I hope it's a good day for you. And I'm wishing you the best of luck in your uh your off season and everything else you're working on as well.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Thanks, James. Yeah, dude. Appreciate it. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank Nico so much for coming on the show. Such a big fan of this guy, and uh yeah, just really appreciative that he was able to come on for a conversation and talk uh just about his trail running life and uh also talk MMA. Dude is a fan, really appreciate that. Um, guys, the best way you can support him is to give him a follow on Instagram. You can find him at Nico Lasave, that's Nico N-I-K-O-L-A-S-S-U-A-V-E. Um, or just type in Nico Teller, it'll come on, and uh you can also find it in the show notes. He's also a great follow on Strava. Um dude has got a super inspiring Strava, just stacking bricks in this training block, and that's been fun to follow along as well. Definitely got me hyped uh to continue to build base and you know get some fitness. So yeah, dude's awesome and uh really appreciative of Nico. Guys, if you enjoyed this podcast and you continue to enjoy the changes we've been making with the pod and just where it's at right now, the best way you can support us is to give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Really trying to grow that YouTube channel now. So if you hop on over to YouTube, it's in the show notes. You can give a subscription, you could subscribe, not give a subscription, but you could subscribe to the Steep Stuff YouTube, which is where you'll be able to watch these conversations in beautiful 4K video of our beautiful faces. Um, everything else is on audio on Apple and Spotify. But yeah, if you've been enjoying this and having fun with it, just like I am, uh, like I said, please give us a five-star rating and review. It helps with our discoverability. Apparently, that's a thing. Um, we got to be discoverable, and uh, that's how we get new people and followers and do the whole, play the whole game. Really fun. Uh last but not least, you can also support us by supporting our brand partner. That's Ultimate Direction. If you hop on over to ultimate direction.com and use code Steep Stuff Pod, that's right. One word, Steepstuff Pod, and that's gonna get you 25% off your cart. It is the holidays, and if you have a loved one and you're interested in getting them something trail running related, check out Ultimate Direction. You're not gonna be disappointed in the new vests. The vest lineup is awesome. Um, actually, have had an opportunity to see more on the, I probably shouldn't leak this, but more on the new adventure vest that's gonna be coming out pretty soon. That looks dope. And we just dropped the Ultra Vest, which is a 12 liter, and the race vest a six liter. Dynamic, dynamic stuff. Um, meaning like the it's not like static, meaning like it's got like stretchy material. It's pretty cool. So check it out. Good stuff. Use code Steep Stuff Pod one word. Thanks, guys.
