The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#140 - Mali Noyes
What happens when a Nordic engine meets Wasatch steeps and a taste for big objectives? We sit down with pro skier and trail runner Mali Noyes to trace the throughline from Sun Valley ski kid to freeride competitor to ultra podium threat, and the conversation is packed with sharp takeaways you can use right away.
Mali unpacks the modern mountain athlete’s toolkit: how backcountry ski touring builds unmatched muscular endurance, why Speedgoat rewards poles and patience at altitude, and how pacing transforms “survival” into a strong finish. We go inside freeride fundamentals—venue scouting, judging criteria, and the fast-and-fluid style that actually scores—then zoom out to the career reality where athletes must be storytellers, producers, and community builders. Mali shares how she approaches YouTube with authenticity over polish, using simple tools to bring people into the raw, decision-heavy world of snow, lines, and risk.
We dig into UTMB ambitions, comparing CCC’s runnable rhythm with the power-hike nature of Speedgoat, and why the Wasatch is a near-perfect training ground for European profiles. Mali is candid about nerve pain and the grind of messy injuries, emphasizing critical PT, hip and core rebuilding, and data that supports intuition—heart rate, lactate, HRV, and truly easy recovery days. The capstone is The Shooting Gallery: skiing all 93 steep Wasatch lines in 47 days. It’s a masterclass in logistics, avalanche judgment, partner management, and mental endurance, stacking over 300,000 feet of vert while staying sharp enough to make clean choices day after day.
If you care about mountain performance, women’s representation in snowsports, or the craft of turning adventures into stories that matter, this one will stick with you. Subscribe, share this episode with a training partner, and leave a quick review to help more mountain athletes find the show.
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And today I'm so excited to welcome Mally Noise to the show. Mally is a professional skier and trailrunner based in the Little Cottonwood Canyon, Utah. And she was kind enough to come on the show and talk all things skiing and all things trailrunning. Mally started off as a Nordic skier and then went to the free ride world and became a pro at that. And then now what she's been up to is kind of balancing both the trail running world and the uh, I guess you could say backcountry/slash ski mountaineer life. Umly is significantly known for uh last year setting, absolutely I shouldn't even say setting, absolutely demolishing the record uh on the shooting gallery, which is the 90 steep descent in Utah's uh Wasatch Mountains, which we do get into in the conversation. Um we also did dive deep into the trail running world. We talked about her 2025 season, which included races like the Broken Arrow 46K. We did also get into the discussion on Speedgoat, where Mally has been an absolute animal, finishing on the podium twice, two second place finishes, and three finishes within the top five of that race. We talked about what she's figured out, considering the fact that everyone has such a hard time at that race, and Mally seems to have cracked it pretty pretty straightforwardly. Um and we talked about the future. We talked a lot about injury, um, we talked about you know what she's got her eyes on next for her 2026 season. Can't believe we're already talking about 2026, uh, and beyond. So I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Um, Mally is an amazing human. It's really fun to talk about more than just trail running in this. We got a lot into the skiing world, and I think that was a lot of fun. So without further ado, Mally Noise.
SPEAKER_00:Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Mally Noise, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
SPEAKER_01:I'm good. How are you?
SPEAKER_03:I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Really appreciate the time. You taking the time to have a chat. Um, yeah, it's it's a fun time of the year. This is the year like uh the running season's kind of over. Seems like there's this long layoff before the ski season, so it's always a good time to debrief the year and catch up and get to meet new folks. So I'm super excited. I did a lot of research before this one to get to learn more about you. And yeah, there's so much I think it'd be fun to talk about. Um before we get like fully started, maybe give me like the five-minute elevator speech on like your background. Like take me back to like growing up in Idaho and then like kind of where you're at now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um I grew up in Sun Valley, Idaho as a Nordic ski racer. Um, and I raced competitively and very seriously through high school. I ran cross-country running too, but that was Nordic training at that point in my life. Um, I raced for a postgrad year. I won nationals, um, multiple podiums. I went on to race in college for the University of Utah. Um, and then after college, I was pretty burnt out on being a Nordic skier and wanted to try being a free rider. Um, so I started free ride skiing with my mom's hand-me-down boots and skis. Um, quickly, like just absolutely loved it and just spent as much time as I could skiing all day, every day. Um, while like slowly working towards becoming a nurse. Um, so I qualified for the free ride world tour. I won North American championships in free or skiing, which qualified me for the free ride world tour. So I traveled there for a year, but really didn't do very well in the tour. I was just like so new to alpine skiing or downhill skiing, plus just like pretty overwhelmed. Um, but ultimately I think it was all like a good thing because then once I returned back, um, at this point I was living in Alta, working at the Alta Medical Clinic. I then was um started backcountry skiing more and more, which is like ultimately the pairing of like my Nordic background of fitness and like love for playing and exploring the mountains and then free ride skill of being able to like ski down anything. Um, and I've sort of just gone from there and just like I'm absolutely obsessed and I love skiing and exploring. Um, and then I'd say the pairing is I ultra trail run in the summer because it's just like another way of moving through the mountains. And that's ultimately like what motivates me both summer and winter is to like spend long days in the mountains, moving relatively slowly, you know.
SPEAKER_03:I yeah, we'll we'll talk about that. Uh, we'll get into like races and stuff like that when we get a little bit. Um, I want to get into like your formative years and like growing up. Like, what was it like growing up in in Sun Valley, Idaho? Like, obviously, Ketchum, that area is like an amazing ski resort destination. It's a beautiful valley. What is it like growing up in a place like that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think it was so great to grow up there. It's just like actually a community. Um and it's still like I still go back there quite a bit. My parents still live there, and it's just like I'm still right back in the community where you're like you know the butcher and like the PT knows your dad so well that when you go to him for an issue, he's like, Oh, your dad has this issue, so it's probably yours issue too. Like these great things. Um, and then I'd say Nordic skiing is really big in Sun Valley. So that sort of like once I've left Sun Valley and looked at other towns, I'm like, oh, no wonder I was a Nordic skier. Um, but it's just like nestled in the mountains in this little valley. So all I did was like play outside all the time. Um and that's pretty cool. Like I just got very familiar with like running around on single track, bagging peaks on the weekend, like everything was just about playing outside.
SPEAKER_03:So cool. Now, did like mom and dad like kind of like I don't know, put an emphasis on it? Like, oh, you should do this, you should try this. Did you find it on your own? Like, how did you pick up a pair of skis? Like, it were your parents into it?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, you mean Nordic skiing?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh my dad um played division one hockey and then was the high school hockey coach. Um so he put me into hockey at a young age, and then my mom like alpine skied and spent is like river guided, and she's a nurse too. Uh honestly, sh I don't know if either of them really understood my Nordic. It's like not something either of them did, or they did do, but not at the level I was then committed. But I think they both understand like passion in doing sports. Um, and so it like obviously like flowed pretty natural, and they could see how that was pretty much what I did and what like fueled and gave me direction like through high school and into college.
SPEAKER_03:I read somewhere that your dad was an Olympian. Is that is that true?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so he went to the Olympics for sailing.
SPEAKER_03:So cool. So it doesn't matter like what you make it in. I just find it so interesting that I don't know, like if you get really good at a craft, it doesn't matter, it could be underwater basket weaving, could be sailing, could be, could be Nordic skiing. I I find that's interesting because those traits seem to get passed down to two kids to find something that they love and get really good at it. Would you would you say that's something, I don't know, maybe that kind of clicked off with you pretty well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think for sure. I think like, hmm, both my parents are so supportive always in like any sport I'm doing, but like high school I'm living back at home. So they were like, they came to all my races, always like helping me fuel or do whatever it was for training, like, no question. Um and I guess like supportive in my accomplishments, like that was um pretty recognized. And then I'd say they both like did live for passion of like living in this town and like not working jobs that make a ton of money, but instead jobs that allowed them to keep skiing and doing what they wanted to do. Um and I think that's really apparent through my brother, who um so he is a professional flying trapeze artist.
SPEAKER_03:What? That's so cool.
SPEAKER_01:It's so random, right? But basically, he followed his passion and he's made it his job. So interesting. Which I think my parents must have taught us.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's it. Well, and the reason I brought that up was just because I see a lot of similarities in folks, especially in the trail world, but like really in just athletics in general, yes, you'll hit you'll find your one-hit wonders where people are just really good and mom and dad had nothing to do with it. But you I do see a lot of people where mom and dad were really good at something else and like had this craft that they were immensely dedicated to, and that seems to rub off on kid um on their children, which I just find to be interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So well, and I think too, it comes back to like skill, like natural talent only goes so far, and in the end, it's the work ethic. And like, and how do you put in all the work? It's like when you just truly love the process, and then and then you just get good by default, you know? Yeah. So that probably makes sense because if the parents live it, you live it too.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, interesting. It's interesting stuff. It's like nature nurture stuff. Um, yeah. I want to pivot a little bit talking about um high school to college. So you obviously skied in college. What is that process like? I mean, most of the people I've had on the podcast that are at the professional level and running usually cross-country, uh, you know, usually sorry, cross-country running, track, field, and uh a lot of soccer players. You're a little bit different. You're the first uh collegiate skier that I've ever had on. What is that like recruitment process like? Um, is it completely different? Do you walk on? Like, how does that whole process work, especially at like a university like Utah?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I guess I don't know what what it's like as from the running side, but yeah, I was recruited. I talked to a bunch of different coaches, visited a bunch of different schools, um got to know the different ski teams. And then ultimately it just came down to University of Utah. My coach in from Sun Valley, I think is just quite literally one of the best coaches there ever is in Nordic ski and ever will be, um, has been pretty influential. And he is sort of like Utah is the closest like university to skiing. Where when you look at like Denver, I think I at this point in high school, I had like one nationals, was like ranked first or second in the country. Like I could pretty much go wherever I wanted to go. Um, where like University of Denver, you have to drive super far to get to skiing. Um, and so it's just sort of like deciding based on that, of sort of strategically what would my priority has always been skiing in one form or another. And that was just gonna give me more skiing. So yeah, University of Utah. I also really like the coach too, so which obviously matters.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, definitely. What what would how was your like just how was it being in university? I know especially like studying to become a nurse is not easy as well. A lot of science classes, a lot of chemistry, biology, things like that. How is it like balancing like racing at a high level, being an athlete at a high level as well as university?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, so it's really hard for me. Um, I got very overtrained in college, which I think shows uh I'm very type A, very obsessive and focused. And then two at default in college, I learned that I had to be more balanced and like stress is stress. And so I was like trying to do everything in school paired with doing all the training. And like then I never performed well in college at all. Um, and it was pretty rough because I went through just like a humbling period, which in hindsight was great. But I went from like leading and controlling races to then like just trying to survive them, which I think is a great perspective to learn now, or when I look back on it. Um, but at the time I sort of had to like separate my identity with like from just being a success, you know, like I think a lot of athletes go through that. Um and I didn't, I wasn't getting all my nursing prereqs at that time. I was sort of like I majored in kinesiology, which is exercise sports science. I actually wanted to be a geology major, but lab classes were the same time as ski team practice. So I couldn't do that.
SPEAKER_03:I have a geology. Like that's just I actually have a geology. Oh yeah, yeah. It's yeah, that's a bummer. Geology is so much fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I and see, that just shows like a great example of how my life is always prioritized skiing. It was like, well, ski team matters more. So bummer.
SPEAKER_03:But I mean, I don't know. I'd say nursing's a bit more practical than geology. Like, I don't work as a geologist, obviously.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. But I mean, yeah, it's yeah, and you forget a lot of that stuff too.
SPEAKER_03:At least I do. I don't know. I mean, I remember my types of rocks, but like the mineralogy and sedimentology stuff, I don't remember any of that, but I'm also old. So yeah, I don't know. Interesting. So I'm I guess I'm trying to understand when because free ride is such a big part of your athletic uh background. Like, how did free ride kind of come into it? I think that's a really interesting story the audience would love to hear.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know if I have well, I can just say what happened. Um I like had downhill skied some growing up, just Sun Valley, um, and my mom was always downhill skiing, but I at pretty young age switched fully to Nordic and just trained Nordic. And any off days, I was actually resting. I think we can understand that as like runners, you need to actually rest. And I wasn't gonna go skiing to like go get injured. So I like, and even in college, even being on the U of U ski team, like we didn't downhill ski, you just Nordic ski. Um, but once I graduated college, having been overtrained and sort of like burnt out on all of it, I was like, I want to be like a ski bomb like my mom and a river guide. So that's how I then um I originally moved to Crestabute, Colorado with my mom hand-me-down skis and boots um and started skiing there and like progressing that. Um the following year, I moved back to Alta, where I was able to work at the Alta Medical Clinic and then started. I like got invited to a free ride comp. And I really didn't know like what I was getting myself into, but it was back in Crested Butte. So I was sort of like, oh, familiar, I'll go see friends. And like my roommate at the time was like, she was going, and she's like, You should come, Mallie, you'd really enjoy it. I'm like, sure. I had to like borrow a beacon, a spine guard, like different things you need for the comp. I went and skied my run. And then I just went and skied the rest of the day with like the other people from Alta and free skied and didn't think much of it. And then the award ceremony came the end of the day, and they're like calling them up, the girls up, like starting in fifth place and fourth place. And I'm like, wow, these girls did so good. And then it turned out that I'd gotten second, and I just like hadn't looked at the results, hadn't paid attention, um, which qualified me for the next day and for more comps. And it sort of just went from there. And I think the bigger piece was like I have the competitive mindset from like naturally, but also from like Nordic skiing. Um and then I just like truly loved to ski. So, like that example, that first comp where I just like free skied all the day and I just always would like try to keep up with the boys and just sort of genuinely just had so much fun. So if the lifts are spinning and I didn't have work, I was skiing. And then working at the Alta Medical Clinic meant I still skied a lot of days. I was working, like there's no patience, I was skiing. Um, and so I think it just like you just get good at something when you love doing it. It's like, plus, I am like, I think I'm pretty good at Nordic skiing, taught me this, or my coach in high school taught me this of like identifying my weaknesses and then working on them. I'm pretty critical of myself, um, which can be hard, but also I think leads to success. So I think that's ultimately why I progressed so quickly in free ride. I just did it a lot.
SPEAKER_03:It's so interesting to me. So I can you do me a favor? And so the closest thing to free ride that I've like talked about on the podcast was probably with Julian Carr and his background. Can you can you talk about like what I think the audience will probably get a kick out of this? Like maybe painting a picture of what free ride really is, the discipline, and I think the judging aspect of it too. Like how is it scored? And maybe just talk about it in general, like from a competition perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thanks for asking. Um you're basically like some face that's probably pretty steep with cliffs and features and stuff. Um and you're judged on your fluidity, control, style, and creativity. And so, like, if you were to go and just traverse the entire face, you're lacking fluidity and lacking style, so you're gonna get scored bad. If you go and crash, you're lacking control, so you're gonna get scored bad. Um, basically, like fast and fluid always wins, is what I would say to myself. Um, but so like skiing what naturally flowed that you can ski well. Um and yeah, you basically go to the top of the you scout the venue either on the venue or from visual inspection only. So you're just looking through binoculars, picking your route, and like now you need to go ski it, like you totally know it and charge it, and you haven't even been there before. Um and yeah, and then you basically like ski your run and you get judged on that. Um yeah, that's that's basically it.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. Would you say, I mean, I when I think of places as far as to live in the low over 48, probably the Wasatch is like the best for that. I mean, at least I don't know. I don't I don't free ride, so and I'm I'm an idiot. But the guess the best thing I would think of is that makes sense because it's the vertical relief is very unique to most places in the in the country. Would you say that's a great place to live and train?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I guess I think the Alta community is like um there's been a lot of professional skiers or good really good skiers that have come out of Alta. And I just like spent so much of my early years of free riding just like skiing with a lot of really good skiers. Um, and there's so many different features and everything. Um, good snow. Um, and then we'd all travel together to different comps. And like I think I learned a lot from them in that like if I hit an air, I was always getting feedback, I guess, on how I could do things better or to step it up and ski better. Um and so I think there's like a piece of the location, but a lot of it has to do with like the crew you're with, which I think is like true of any sport. Like my Nordic years, I also had a really strong crew. The Sun Valley just develops Nordic skiers. So there's so many people that just I always had people to train with and push me and just raises the bar together.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I want to like transition and like ask about the the professional scene. Like, is it like trail running where you do good, you win? I mean, in our case it's races, in your case it's competitions. The scoring obviously is significantly, it's a different sport in its entirety. But is the professional scene similar in the sponsorship aspect and kind of similar like that? Like, can you make a living doing this from a professional perspective?
SPEAKER_01:You definitely can make a living. I think I think at this point, trail running has more money in it for professional athletes, at least on a broader scale. Um, I just see a lot of running athletes that are sponsored and maybe have to don't have to work or work pretty minimally purely off of like a few good results. Um, where in skiing we don't have like there's the free ride comp scene, but that only like goes for so long. Um, where then it's movies and you're always having to produce so much more and storytelling. And like if you look at like Cody Townsend and Nikolai Schumer, which are like now two best known skiers, um, they both have like really successful YouTube channels. So, skiers, I feel like we are both athletes, but also like producers and directors and storytellers. And you just at this point, you can't get away with just being an athlete. And it used to be the way you could just like get your one little star segment in a film or your one like star for your eyed comp, but now you have to be so much more. So you're sort of like an influencer and an athlete and like recognizing that it's both, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03:This is such an interesting aspect of the conversation, too, because like I've I've had this talk a lot with folks lately. And you know, we're in a crossroads of trail running, where trail running is almost becoming very similar. Like, yeah, you've got your gyms of the world, your Katie Shy's of the world, win the win races, and they don't really have to have a social media presence as much. But I feel like a good amount of folks have you know significant follower bases or constantly creating content or constantly doing stuff on social media, or have podcasts in the space. They're they're they're diversifying in a lot of ways. And you can even look at like climbing, I think is probably even a better example where athletes, most known athletes on the climbing scene, seem to have like crazy like followings. Um and they're very a lot of them have uh, you know, they're able to tell these stories um, you know, via documentaries and and clips and things like that. What is your take? Like, do you think that that's just the way it's gotta be now? And that's just the like as far as on the running scene and the skiing scene, that like you can't just be an athlete anymore. You have to be a storyteller as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I completely agree. I think I think you can be an athlete if you're just the absolute best. Jim Walmsley, Courtney Dalter, um, Katie Scheid. Um, but like it also is limiting. And so like you can have longevity if you're more than just an athlete, because it eventually like you're gonna stop winning the races. So I think of like Sally McRae as a great example where like she used to be like one of the top runners, but she is now just as relevant because of everything else she does. Um, and then you watch Western States and she's running in it in the live feed, it's just yellow hearts the entire time. And I'm like, guarantee half these people are here just because of Sally. Like, and that's like actually pretty cool. So I think if we can like adjust the stigma we have against like athlete versus influencer, um and maybe there's like a deeper piece of it, but I sort of like to look at it with like these bubbles. So it's like a Venn diagram where you have like athlete um influencer, and maybe you have content creator, maybe that's in with influencer. I don't know, because as an athlete, you are still influential. It's just are you maybe more influential to the core? Like, say um, I'm trying to think of someone, Caleb Olson. Super influential to the core, but I guarantee you, like my yoga instructor has no idea who Caleb Olson is, but she knows who Sally McRae is. So there's like these different pieces, right? But I think Caleb, like uh I think very highly of him, but like he needs to continue to win races, which at a certain point isn't gonna happen. So if you can also like use that to be influential and sort of like in your own way, I don't know. I I don't know. And so now I'm sort of like going. I think I guess to what I was saying is too, is like there's some people Caleb's gonna have a bigger bubble of being an athlete and a smaller bubble of being an influencer, but he's still an influencer because like, dude, my boyfriend wants to wear that ACG shirt. The second it comes out, he's buying it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, everybody wants to be like Caleb. I get it, and he's an iconoclast in a lot of ways. I I like his attitude, like his because he's he's got some views and he's not afraid to share them, and I appreciate that. Like you know, it's I don't know, that's a whole different conversation in our sport. But like I I really do agree with you. I I don't know, and this is something I I think is a very uniquely trail-running problem. Because like I said, I we talked about we talked about skiing, we talked about climbing, and most of those athletes do both and do it very both very well. They also get a lot of backing. Whereas like running, I I'm guilty of this myself. Like I've poo-pooed on influencers, and then shit, I have a podcast also. So I guess in a lot of ways, I influence, you know? It's weird.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. But that's what I'm saying is like the influence is still part of it, but we don't need to like influencer is just this like taboo word or bad, but it doesn't, it doesn't mean Caleb influences you to wear the ACG shirt. That doesn't mean negative, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. Um I think organicness is really important too. Where like, for instance, like I think you do a really good job, and this is where I was going with this, was gonna get it into talking about YouTube and some of the projects and things that you've done. Um but like you're an athlete at an extremely high level and very organic and doing this really badass stuff in the mountains, and I think it's an excellent vehicle to convey what you're doing to show that to folks, and so they can get inspired to go do big things in the mountains. I think those things work really well. I think when people I think people's bullshit meters go up when it comes to like other things. I don't know, you know, where people are just trying to sell stuff to you where it's a little bit different, right? Oh, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, okay, yes, I see, yeah, totally. And I guess that's where you just sort of have to like adjust that in your mind, or sort of like, yeah, because I guess I'm an influencer for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we all are.
SPEAKER_01:But I'm also an athlete, yeah, exactly. So it's like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting. I don't know. All right, so on the topic of YouTube, Instagram, like your stuff has been really fun to follow along and like the stuff that you're putting out there. Um Yeah, talk about just like you know, your ability. I think one, how much work that you put into it, because it's very obvious you put a lot of work into it, and just what that's been like trying to tell your story and put that out into the world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I'm glad you're enjoying it. Um, because yes, it has been a lot of work. And I'm always like analyzing how to tell the story better, what to share. Um, but again, this comes back to like both my boyfriend who is very good at marketing and like always thinking like this, him telling me to start a YouTube, and then Cody Townsend, like the YouTube king and skiing, telling me to start a YouTube. So um started that process, I'd say in the running space, like Allie Ostranger is someone who I really look to. Um but yeah, then I don't know. Then it's sort of it's become like more practiced as you do it. And then it's just like you can do the sickest and earliest things, but if you tell no one, nobody knows. So you have to tell the story. Um, and then hopefully, yeah, inspire, motivate people along the way. Um, and I really look at like representation and how much representation matters. So being a female in a male-dominated sport and just sort of like showing girls how capable they are. Um but I also don't want to make it just about the gender, just sort of showing skiers in general, like what's capable to push these boundaries. Um yeah, I don't know if that really answers that question.
SPEAKER_03:But let's talk about that a little bit. I find that really interesting because I mean, we already lack like significant women representation in trail running to begin with. I feel like it's even less on the ski side where I see women doing badass stuff. Talk about that. Like, is has that I mean, I obviously that's a giant focus of what you're trying to put out there. Do you think that's played a role in helping? Have you do have you gotten any feedback like as far as inspiring others to go do epic stuff?
SPEAKER_01:Or um, I get a lot of feedback, uh, which is great, from people um that are motivated or girls seeing they can do it, or like my PT today told me his daughter like wants the same heart glasses I have. And that's all really cool. I would say sometimes I have a pretty hard time being part of the ski industry because it's so male-centric. So it doesn't really matter that maybe the bigger picture is that we should show how competent and capable women are, because along with sports and having sports and direction provides so much, like it's taught me so much confidence that I think I can carry into so many other things in life. And so I think like we know that if women continue through or girls continue through sports in high school and college, like it's gonna help them with the rest of life and the rest of our society just by giving them confidence and purpose and direction and everything. Um but like in the end, the ski industry cares about making money. And like when it comes down to the numbers, there's the freaking CEO saying that 80% of our consumers are men, so we're just gonna target men. And you're like, well, it's like the This, so the chicken or the egg, if you don't target towards the women and don't show them that they can do this or build anything for them, then like they're not gonna buy from you. So I think it's this like broken system that I get I get pretty down on it quite often. So yeah, I have to like re-center. And sometimes my why of like showing how capable and strong women are, I'm like, sometimes I have to like be like, well, that's such a big problem. I need to like shoulder it for a little bit and just like focus on loving skiing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, uh to the contrary though, I think it's amazing what you're doing by conveying your message and what you're putting out into the world because it does inspire so many people. And hopefully that plays a role in eventually changing the economic system. I mean, obviously you're one person, but hopefully that you know continues to grow a movement and there's more people that get excited about it, especially where you live too, the wasat. I feel like there's uh there's a lot of women trailrunners there, and I mean maybe there's some, you know, a lot of women skiers as well. So hopefully that's got some crossover and continue to build a movement. And uh yeah, I I I mean, I I don't really want to get I mean we can get to the economic stuff because I love to poo-poo on the economic stuff all the time when it comes to not just skiing, but trail running. Like it's interesting how things have become such a business in the last few years. And I feel like with the professionalization of the sport, it just continues to get more um about the numbers, more this, more that, and I don't know. It drives me kind of crazy sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I exactly. That's where sometimes you need to like step away and just remember you you enjoy doing it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, you do it because you love it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:On that topic, um you have been a professional on the scene for a bit of time. Obviously, Solomon. Can you can you talk about that? Like what is it like, or what was it like being on that Solomon International team? I know you got to run as well, or you got to yeah play a part uh on the running team as well, go into a team camp uh with some of the greatest trail runners, like first battle all of famers, which is kind of cool. What was that whole experience like?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that was so cool. Um yeah. Uh I saw that Courtney was on the list when I got invited, and I was like, oh my god. Um but yeah, I think that was like uh it was sort of a funny thing. So I had qualified for CCC. I had gotten like second at Speed Go that year, and then I went straight over to do the like UTMB training camp with Solomon, where we basically are on the UTMB loop. Um, and my team manager for Solomon Free Ski came on like day one, showed this film of me skiing to like the whole team, like, which I was like, oh, this is so embarrassing. Um, but then we're on the runs, and like every single person on the team like had a time where they sort of are running next to me, talking to me, and every single one is like, so what race are you racing? I'm like CCC. And they're like, Oh, do you know how long that is? I'm like, yeah. And then, like, do you have you ever run that distance before? And like, no, and they're like, Oh, like sort of like the skier, what is she doing? And then I think by like day three or four, I was like integrated in the crew. There was no question on like if I even knew the distance. Like, it was so fun, and just like, I don't know, we're talking about like how many carbs an hour, you know, like all the really nerdy shit that pulse runners talk about. And I was like right a part of it. I honestly felt like more. I yeah, I just was really enjoyable and a fun, like yeah, I don't know. I don't know if many of them really understood what I do and skiing, but I could just run with them in the mountains. So I think Francois got it for sure.
SPEAKER_03:He's I've heard he's an interesting guy. I've met him once, but a little bit of language barrier. Like, I didn't like get a chance to like actually have a conversation with him. Like, what does he like in real life?
SPEAKER_01:He has like really dry humor. So at first I thought he was just like an asshole French man, you know, like the French are. And then he it was actually just dry humor that I was misinterpreting, and he's just actually hilarious and cracking jokes all the time. And like we were in Cormaillere, Italy, and he's like pointing up at some mountain. He's like, Mally, did you free ride that? I'm like, Oh, I actually did ski that when I was on the tour. Like, and so like recognizing that he actually like really enjoyed he loves skiing and he just loves playing in the mountains. So, like, I think uh yeah, he's I'm a big fan of Francois.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, interesting guy. Um, yeah, and I it's kind of cool too, because I feel like that's I'm sure you probably earned his respect very quickly, especially with your ski background. So it's a mix for good conversations. But what was that, what is that camp like? Aside from the running, I've heard like Solomon like pulled out all the stops for some of those camps. Like I think I was listening to a podcast somewhat recently with like Lucy Bartholomew, and like she was talking about how they had like shakes like ready for you after your after your runs and like all these different things, like prepared for uh athletes that were gonna race a lot of the UTMB races. Like, was that was it was it pretty bougie? Like, what was it like?
SPEAKER_01:I listened to this podcast with Lucy as well, and it sounds like they've maybe like perfected some of it since I went, but basically you like run the course, um, and they're moving your gear and doing the shuttle and then having aid stations where all the aid stations are. Well, within reason, which I didn't really connect that until like then doing the race, and I was like, oh perfect. I was like, I experienced getting aid here, and there's aid here. And they even had all NAC products, so we were like practicing with the products that were going to be at the race and like doing the whole thing with your gear being shuttled. It's like it's actually a very hard thing to do without like a team. And I think oftentimes like the drive from point to point is way longer and more difficult than it just running it. So um, yeah, and then they have a physio that travels with you. So you always have time with the physio. Um, they have like the shoe developers and everything. So you just sort of you do have a lot of access in that way to really like, I think to that point of like specificity matters. So like to get time on the course, knowing it and like running that terrain. Um it, I mean, I I think it's sort of a no-brainer for the way to prepare. And then now you can see that like Hoka's doing it, and I'm sure other teams are doing it. So interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_03:So this asked, I got asked the million dollar question. Will you go back to CCC and and check that box at some point in time?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my God, I've had the worst luck at CCC. Uh I felt so ready that year after the UTMB camp with Solomon, and I just had like a good ski season, and I am really excited to show I think a lot of people don't comprehend that you can be a skier and a runner, mostly because I think a lot of people don't like know about it. So they're just confused and people like just aren't very open to things they don't know. Um but I think there's a lot of Nordic skiers or backcountry skiers that can pair um trail running, which I think like Francois is an example of that. Killian is Katie and Germain both ski in the winter. I mean, it sort of goes on and on. Martina. Um and so I'd like very excited for that because it's just like I have such a huge base. Um so ultrarunning is great for that. Um, but that first year, um I had my mom got super sick and was in the hospital like the week before the race start. So mentally I was not like I had already ran an ultra with like the stress. So um not good for me. And then the next year I had like massive GI issues and this like hip thing that I've been sort of dealing with. So um I look forward to tweaking things and figuring it out, um, which is maybe to the demise of being a skier is half my season or most of my season is spent skiing. So I'm not running all these races to figure out all these little things that other runners can do.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. I feel like you can do, I mean, it's people do it and they are are really good at both. So I just find it interesting that like you know, the crossover is is a mess. So I look forward to going having you go back and it'll be cool for you to check that out. Do you think CCC? Because I think you would also be because like if I'm looking at just as just like me looking at uh like maps and stuff like that, like OCC like makes sense given your speed goat background too. Now I'm a short trail guy, so we're gonna talk about speed goat next, but I think OCC you you would dominate as well. I think you'd have a great time there.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you went the other direction than I thought.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like no longer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I want to go longer. And I'm like, CCC is so runnable, and I'm like, I'm not very good at running, but I can hike really well with poles, you know. So um, and I've sort of connected it. People can say whatever they want to say, but CCC, if you are good at Western states, you're good at CCC and vice versa. Um it's got a lot of vert, but it's completely different. It's not speed goat is like so much just hiking and very little running except for downhill, where CCC is a lot of running. Um and I think I just like have struggled with the speed in CCC, but I just haven't actually like shown up to the start line actually 100%. So um I'm mostly intrigued with going back for UTMB because I think like this last year, um, with how it was so stormy and weathery and apparently like whatever they're calling it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you were Himalayan. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, um I'm sure it was not Himalayan, but I'm sure for some people it was. And that's where I'm like, oh well, that's like what I deal with all the time. Like I'm so comfortable in that setting. Um, and then it just gets longer, which I think pairs really well with what I do skiing. It's just super, super long days.
SPEAKER_03:So all right. Yeah, I like maybe the full loop then. Let's hear it. I I want to see it. I do want to talk about speed go. It's interesting, like you haven't become a champion yet. But but but I feel like if anyone's got that course figured out, it's definitely you. Like two times, okay, two second places, you had a fourth place as well. Like you've had a lot of really good finishes at that race. What have you figured out that I feel like because people get wrecked at that race? It is people have a really like struggle immensely. What do you think it is that you figured out that other people just like have not seemed to have gotten?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I think well, so I ran the 28K, which is like my first real trail race, however long ago that was. Um and that was fun, cool. I don't know. Um, and then the 50k was my first uh in 2020 was my first 50k, and I got fourth. Um, and I remember this was during COVID, so we were in like waves, and I was in the elite wave probably for my 28k result or something. And I was the only person in the elite wave with polls, and like Hayden Hawks was there, Anthony Gonzalez, like I can't remember what girls were there, but like, and I was the only one with polls, and I remember being like insecure about it and sort of being like, oh, this is weird. But then I like used them and I'm comfortable using polls from my like Nordic background. Like I've done drills my entire life with polls. Um, and then I was like passing people on the last climb and sort of like surprised myself with how I did. And I think through that, I've now seen that now like now everyone has poles, except for maybe a handful of people. The majority is polls at this point. Um, and so I think there's things where it's just like speed goat is sort of more of a like mountainous race and not a run-running race. So like being able to climb efficiently and feeling comfortable climbing and descending is what's like helped me in that way. It's also high elevation, which I think people don't pace very well for. Um but yeah, I think there's the big component is the amount of climbing and poles.
SPEAKER_03:What uh so two things to do this. Like, one, I would imagine it helps immensely that you get you could basically train on the course anytime you want, you know, living like kind of right there. Um but two, uh, you must be immensely strong. Like, do you spend a lot of time in the gym? Like, because I just feel like from a high power hiking perspective, like, I mean, obviously you have to be faster than everybody else, whether you're hiking or whether you're running downhill. So there's got to be something to it. Like, what is your strength routine like? And do you think that also sets you apart?
SPEAKER_01:I despise strength. And I had to do so much strength in college that I, if it's up to me, I do not do strength. I now do some to not get injured, but I think honestly, the biggest thing is in the winter, I am spending so many hours just ski touring, and that's just because I love to ski. So it's like if it's good skiing, I'm gonna do just massive volume. And it's like that skiing, which like Killian talks about this, but it's like it's not pounding on my body and it's not mentally fatiguing because it's like motivated by fun skiing. So I'll all of a sudden put in like a 30 or a 40-hour week with at least 30,000 vertical feet, and I'm carrying my skis and boots on my feet and my backpack. So muscular endurance, which is like, you know, real hot topic in ultra running right now. But if you're a skier, you just literally do it all winter. Um, so I guess I'm strong by just moving in the mountains. Um yeah, I sort of think that's that's it.
SPEAKER_03:Really it. I don't know. Yeah. No, I think that's I think for people that don't live like even for me in Colorado, like, yeah, we have the incline and we have like opportunities for climbing. But like, dude, there is nothing like the Wasatch, in my opinion, where you could just get a 3,000-foot climb like it's in two miles. And that's true. I, yeah, I think there's something to that where it's that might be one of the best, if not the best. I can't believe I'm saying this because Finn talks about this all the time. The best training ground like in in the country, in my opinion, for like European style races and really just just about any mountainous race. Um yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. I I think that that there's something to that.
SPEAKER_01:I totally agree. Now, having been over to France for two different like seasons and running the course for CCC and UTMB, like they always talk about Europe is so steep and everything. And like coming from the Wasatch, I was like, oh, it's just like the Wasatch. Like it's so exactly to that point. I think you could be completely prepared for UTMB or whatever race you wanted to do by running in the Wasatch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Interesting. So now we've we've dissected the whole thing. I feel I feel comfortable. And now I get an idea of of what makes makes it makes it work. Um, I just need like a stairmaster or something. Or I need I need skiing. I don't know. That also helps as well.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, and I think pacing and speed goat because of the high elevation. I think it's a 50k, but I think you still need to pace, and I think you do see that.
SPEAKER_03:I think somebody can go out off the front and survive, but I think unless you're David Sinclair, like it's it's gonna be long.
SPEAKER_01:Who is a Nordic skier? So like yeah. Adam Loomis has always done really well there.
SPEAKER_03:Like they seem to do pref like I mean, they're just they're good at everything. Like, I mean, most of the the men and women that come from the Nordic skiing background. I mean, I I think that crossover is just immense for trail running. It just makes sense. For you, do you now let me ask you this? Do you still work with a coach? Do you are you I know you were working with Cody Lind? Is that still are you still um like being coached?
SPEAKER_01:Wow, I'm so ha I'm so impressed. You yes, yeah, you yeah. Um I am currently not, but just out of not like structured training right now. Um, but yes, once I'm back to structured training, Cody is definitely my coach. And yeah, I think I'm pretty we like collaborate a lot. So I feel like with my Nordic background, also being exercise sports science slash just enjoying it, I'm I'm pretty um good at like the structure and like what works for my body and my training for training. Um, I listen to your David Sinclair podcast as well as your one with Adam Loomis, and I'm like, yeah, we all fucking think the same. We're just Nordic skiers that like know how to train. There's so many things in ultra running that are becoming these hot topics that people are talking about. And I'm like, oh, I've been doing this since I was 13. Like, but I think Cody really brings this element of like, which I think if you don't know Cody, then you probably know Paulin. And there's just this quality of this like emotional caring, and like Cody makes me more confident and sort of like helps me so much in that way. And I think truly with Cody, I sort of was able to level up in my running because it sort of like, yeah, realized I was more capable than I what thought I was.
SPEAKER_03:Do you so like with my coach? I mean, we do a lot. I'm like very glued to the heart rate stuff. Like we're very always in the weeds about, you know, our zones, uh, which is great because I've gotten immensely fitter by paying attention to stuff like that. Are you a heart rate person? Especially because I know that's a huge carryover from Nordic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um so uh yeah, I grew up with like always wearing a heart rate monitor. Um, it was even like before heart rate monitors were really that easily available. But my coach would like assign you a heart rate monitor for the day with a heart rate monitor watch, polar watches. And then you would break it down afterwards with him and we'd look at the graph, and it would be like, What were you doing here, Mallie? Going way too hard or going way too easy, stopping. So, like, and then obviously once heart rate monitors became more available, we all had them and we all wore them all the time. Um, we did like lactate threshold tests multiple times a year to just get our zones dialed. Um and then I always took my morning heart rate, which now it's like evolved to HRV, is like more scientifically advanced. And now with smartwatches, it's super easy. But I spent most of my life like waking up in the morning and feeling my pulse and taking my heart rate. And I have like logs of like years of my life of my resting heart rate.
SPEAKER_02:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:All to say, yes, I but now at this point I'm like intuitive enough with it that I don't need to like wear it all. I wear the chorus armband, but I don't like I know it and I don't have to live to it, if that makes sense, but I'm sure you're learning that where you sort of like learn the feeling. Yep, yep. But it helps you sort of figure it out if you have the number.
SPEAKER_03:You know, it's funny. This time of year is always weird too. Like we'll swing and like one day we'll get like a 40 or 30 degree day, and then one day it's like 65. And it's so crazy. Like, because I, you know, always dialed in with my heart rates. Like, so it's like your zones, I don't know, for me it like shifts with the temperature. Like I'm always working, you know, you're working harder, or I think this is for everybody.
SPEAKER_01:In the heat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it's it's just interesting. I I'm very into it. I find it really interesting. And it's I mean, this is I've always been kind of put it this way, this is the first time I've ever done like lactate testing in the beginning when I first started walking working with someone, reset my zones. I've always just been kind of like aware. I'm like, okay, I think this is my zone too, but never actually like tested it because it was just off my watch. Um now that I've got it actually pretty dialed, I'm like, huh, this science stuff is pretty legit. It actually works.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Totally. I'm excited for you. I feel like that's uh I did um a whole lactate threshold test and everything, and teaching my boyfriend who's like picked up running. Um, and it like helped him so much because then he was able to like actually run easy on his easy days and then like actually run hard on his thresholds. Where now I think he's maybe finding a little better intuition, but it's like such a great baseline. And then you get to retest it and you get to improve, and it's so exciting. It is.
SPEAKER_03:It's so funny. I had a uh an Alaskan Nordic skier on Michael Earnhardt, and he's young, he's like a young gun. I think he's like 20, 22 years old. And he was making fun of all the the trail runners. He's like, You guys go way too hard. He's like, in we have everything in zones dialed, so a lot of our stuff is just like super easy, and you guys don't know when to go easy. And you when you're going hard, you're going way too hard. He's like, It's a pretty simple calculus. I was like, Oh, okay, all right. Well, yeah, there's a message to everybody there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, I agree with him. That's like pretty big. I feel like actually I can tell like the more novice people are, the harder they run on just easy days. Where you're like, the race is the race, the race is it now.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Like, are you a Stravistop? Like, I'm so bad. Like, I'll look at people's runs sometimes and like I'm like, yeah, it's a great pace. You ran really well, and like it was you just left your race though on on whatever route you just did because your heart rate's at a zone five, you know, and you didn't have to do that. I don't know. I'm a stravostop sometimes when it comes to that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, I love to analyze people's training, and then I got this year really into doing the free trail fantasy, which is basically where you get to just analyze people's training and how they're gonna perform. Um, but yeah, I guess to that point, like Helen Mino Faulkner, she runs easy and she makes fun of herself for that, and she is freaking fast.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, it works for her, yeah, yeah. Amazing athlete.
SPEAKER_01:Like, well, it's science, but yeah, it's a crazy thing.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, I mean, well, that's the thing. You start to analyze people's stuff, and like most of the people at the top of the sport aren't going, you know, stupid hard all the time. Like it doesn't, yeah, I mean, it's just not good for longevity, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, and I think, well, I think there's psychology involved, so they probably don't have like this ego or insecurity that they need to prove it on their easy runs. Um, but there's also like, yes, science, you actually like build better mitochondria and everything when you run easy. Um, my coach used to actually do this thing, my high school coach, if like um he would like hide, so we'd have these like long endurance, like two-hour roller skis or runs, and he would hide in the bushes and then like pop out randomly somewhere and then lactate test us. And if our lactate was too high, like above two millimoles, I think, I'm like sort of fuzzy on the exact details, we would get in trouble. And like because you were going too hard, because above that, you're in like this dead zone where you're like in between your threshold and you're easy. So you're not actually benefiting or growing, and you're just like getting really good at this, but not not actually raising your ceiling and not building your base. Um, and I feel like he put so much energy into that, and I got not yelled at, but I got reprimanded like enough to be like he c it clearly mattered. So, like, I run easy when it's easy.
SPEAKER_03:A coach sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_01:And then I'm ready. He's seriously so great. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Honestly, like, yeah. Sometimes I don't know. I sometimes I wish I had a coach to yell at me. Like, I like my coach is a very nice person. You probably know, but like, yeah, super nice dude. And like sometimes I'm like, dude, you gotta go a little harder, man. Just like yeah, I'm not afraid of tough love. You gotta tell me, like, you really shit the bet at this. Like, sometimes you gotta just be honest, you know. At least that's all I'm saying. Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I mean, we were like high school kids, so like there's like a little different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I'd be terrified, like, oh my god. That's funny.
SPEAKER_01:Well, or we're probably being little shitheads. Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Um well, it's if you're a high school kid, it's like, I don't know. I think back to like my high school days, and it's like, yeah, sports were important, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I would have the dis I think discipline is probably the right word. The discipline to, you know, if everybody's going hard, especially when you're all young, like you all want to keep up with each other. So it's you know, that makes it interesting.
SPEAKER_01:But right, which I think is where he would then like have hard numbers, yeah. To be. But I also learned like some things we did a lot of training camps, like up in Glacier National Park, and like those were some formative things where I'd like we had to be in groups of at least three or more because that's like big enough to scare the grizzly bears away. And I'm such a like competitive idiot at that age that I would start with the boys and then I would bonk at like three hours in, and then I'm like barely keeping up, but also like well, I have to keep up so the grizzlies don't kill me, and like I should have just been chiller, like which I would get, yeah, like learning lessons.
SPEAKER_03:You added the animal component into it, so it's like that's a whole nother challenge at that point. You you had made it harder, yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I want to shift gears a little bit and go back to uh your season this year with broken arrow. I I'm just gonna ask you, like, was the goal to because that's it seems like a different race from your style. I read your Strava write up on it. Obviously, you said a lot more running, just a different style of racing that you normally do. Was the original goal going on? Like, did you want to try to get like a team USA spot? Was it more so just to mix it up with some of the best competition in the country? Like, what was the goal for it?
SPEAKER_01:Um, gosh, I think there was a lot of I'd always wanted to check out Broken Arrow because like so many people speak so highly of it. Um and then yeah, being competitive. I'm definitely drawn to competing in competitive races that are like building and going somewhere. Um and so like Broken Arrow did have the option for qualifying for world champs. Um, and then just like actually being competitive. Cause I think like you can go win some like backyard 50k, but it doesn't push you the same. And I'm all into being pushed and challenged and sort of like um yeah. So I think those are the reasons I was like drawn to it. I think like most people, like of course, qualifying for worlds would have been sick. I didn't think given my ski season, I was not necessarily set up for that at all, and that was not my priority, but the world's course I think would fit very well into my strengths. Um basically speed goat, but more, you know? Um but yeah, and then um I probably will sign up for it again. Um but I think it's just it's a thing that I've been like trying to figure out is just like running and racing more, um, even with my skiing, because it's like it is hard. I just don't get to race that much. So if I have like a bad race, but I only race like two or three times a year, it's just sort of not quite the it's rougher than I feel like runners who are running year-round they can have a bad race, but they have five or six races that year. Um trying to run more races, and that's like at a good time for it where maybe I can like switch into running enough. Um which in the past I've had like less than a month to get ready for Speed Goat, and that's worked out. Um, I think this year was like special in that like I'm sort of dealing with this like nerve like bulging disc thing in my back. Um, conveniently doesn't hurt me skiing, but that like hurt me in that race, and then I was so tired. And I like in hindsight, totally understand why I was so tired, but um yeah, I don't know. That was like a long-winded going in the lot of directions.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no, I appreciate it. It's always interesting. I mean, like, I don't know. Like Broken Arrow to me is such a different type of race than something like a spear, just because like I think it's stupid runnable. I mean, yes, there's a lot of vertical and what 27 miles, 26 miles, it's like 8,000, 9,000 feet, but I don't think you're hiking that much, or at least I don't recall. No, I don't I think it's very runnable.
SPEAKER_01:So no, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I got all excited.
SPEAKER_03:I like broken air, mostly you, but I just don't I don't classify really as a sky race, but you know.
SPEAKER_01:No, all the good running, or take that back. That's like my perspective coming in. The good, like verde races, they're speed goat, and then you have to go to Europe.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I got maybe the minotaur the minotaur in Canada, but like a solid race.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you this. I I I I did some research because I I know, like I said, you like you've said, you live in Little Cottonwood Canyon. I've never seen you on a start list for a Cirque series race, and I feel like we got you gotta do one at least this year.
SPEAKER_01:No, I did one.
SPEAKER_03:Did you? Okay. I looked at Sun Valley, is that what it was? No.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no, I did it years ago when Katie Scheid used to live here. Um yeah, exactly. And she won and I was third. I was like sick or something. I did not feel good, but still, like I'm on the podium with Katie Scheid. Um, that was like before she was super fast. But um yeah, I've done one, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:All right.
SPEAKER_01:Some I actually had the intention of doing it this year, but then yeah, there's so many races, it's so hard to do it all, you know?
SPEAKER_03:I know, I know, I know. I just I don't know, I was pressing a little bit. Big fan of the yeah, obviously we're you know kind of a short stuff podcast, so that's why I was like, you know what? Cirque series race, especially because you live at the base of like two of the best of their races, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then there's another one in Brighton, so great.
SPEAKER_03:Uh they got rid of it. It's coming back. I I don't know. I I've heard I've heard maybe it comes back. Dude, that's a stupid hard course. I don't know. Like, have you ever run that Wolverine Cirque? That thing is I didn't like I thought it was too technical. Like, I was like, wow, this is really hard to go fast on. Um the whole Millicent scramble, and then yeah, up and it's yeah, that was a challenging course.
SPEAKER_01:And then you go over to sunny side or sun peak or whatever sunrise, whatever that's called.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know. I was suffering, it was it was horrible. Yeah, yeah. It was it was fun while you know, it was fun after the fact. Yeah, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, Julian's done a good job making like mountain running races.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel like that's the closest thing to like mini skyrunning that we get in the c in the U in the lower 48, which is Which is cool. So completely. Yeah. How's the nerve stuff? Are you like kind of on the other side of that now? Or I I I've gone through nerve injuries myself. I'm on the backside of one now from last summer. And the reason I ask is because I it's like the worst thing possible. I hate the nerve stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, we'll have to talk more after. I'd love to learn what um I'm learning a lot. I think it's good to slow down. Um for me. I did have a very big winter, so I think I've also just took me a while to recover from that. But I am like learning new habits and routines, and I basically just have like a pretty like crooked hips or like something. So like hiking is fine, but running, running hurts me. And I'm sort of coming to this place where I'm like, oh, I that's running is hard for me because I sort of just use one leg. So I'm like, I do my little core exercises every single day, one day off. Um, just sort of like, yeah, slowing down and doing that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_03:It's exactly what I had actually. Well, I don't know if I would I mean same similar stuff for like short ground contact worked fine for hiking. Like I could go do the incline and that wouldn't bother me. But anytime you open up your stride on like the track or like actually anything running wise, yeah, it's like the shoot shooting pain on in your hip or like adductor I've had. Yeah, it's yeah, it's hips. Uh honestly for me, what I figured out was that like I just had really weak and terrible hips. And as soon as I started working on the hips, like everything started like working again constantly, like pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_01:So sweet. Okay, yeah. I think it's been a little tricky for me because I've like done it's also great to hear. I love hearing success stories from this because I get demoralized sometimes, but yeah, like it's been a little hard because like the nerve I think is like deactivating some or like inhibiting me from using some of my muscles. So like learning how to like activate those in ways that aren't hurting. Because I just have this like, yeah, shooting pain all the way down to the bottom of my foot.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so yours is like more sciatic then, or yeah. Well, the thing is, like, I don't know, I've gotten become so I'm and I'll preface this with the audience. Not a doctor, not a PT. I don't know, I'm I'm an idiot. But from what I've known, because I have a lot of PT friends, the the like the fascia from your hip flexors and in the back in your hips and stuff like that, that stuff's like super complicated. And if like anything's not moving correctly with like hip flexion and internal and external hip rotation, like that's when it all gets screwed up. And like that's what I had, where like my hips just got so tight and I became so clod dominant, and I wasn't just engaging the glutes. Because of that, it would cause uh for me specifically, like same similar stuff, not all the way down the leg, but mine was like I couldn't put any pressure on one leg. Um, I mean, I thought for the longest time I had like a sacral stress fracture because of it, because it was such bad, pronounced like pain in the back of my hip, like on that like right on top of the SI joint, and then like really into my abductor and pelvis area. And it took me months to figure it out and like lots of work, but yeah, it's a lot of it's just like hip strength, at least for me. I don't know. Everybody's got it.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think I I think it's the same with me too. It's just like figuring out those exercises and like a lot of it is like my core too, and like not I don't know, yeah. It's crazy. I do think I'm going somewhere, and it's it's been going to so many different PTs and then finally finding one that like actually critically thinks instead of just like sticking me in the algorithm and being like, okay, do these squats, and you're like, come back to them five months later and you're like, So I've done the squats, nothing's getting better. You're like, you just need to do it longer. You're like, No, so it's it's been a process that um, and I've actually gotten some really good like um resources and help from other female runners or just like people in general, but learning a lot.
SPEAKER_03:It's too bad Jimmy Picard doesn't uh live in the Wasatch anymore. He's like one of the I mean, outside of like Sean Rimmer, who I work with in the springs, like Jimmy Picard's like one of the best PTs for running. Like I would say world class. He moved to the East Coast, but that guy's that guy's awesome. Yeah, yeah. There's there's and there's some good, I mean, you just gotta find the PT that knows running and knows like movement. And I think that's the big that's the hardest thing to do, is to find someone that understands that.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, yeah, and like critical th I my PT is like skier runner, and he's genuinely so great. Um but he critically thinks because I don't think I fall into the natural like algorithm, so then he's like breaking it down and yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's such a frustrating thing too, because it's like not to go off on a tangent, but like you know, some you think, okay, is do I have it? Would almost be easier if I like had a like an like I don't want to say an actual injury, but okay, maybe I tore a tendon or a a break or stress fracture. When it comes to nerve stuff, it's so complicated that like I'd almost rather just have something that's more black and white, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01:Oh I couldn't agree more. I'd much rather if I broke my tibia, I'd be better by now. Like long ago, and you can see it on the x-ray, and then you can see when it heals.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you know what to do. Yeah, it's like yeah, yeah. I the nerve stuff, I lost pretty much my whole season to it last year, and yeah, and I feel so bad for every runners going through it because it's like, dude, that's the it's the yeah, the nerve stuff is not fun. Have you tried? I don't know if it's like I what it's funny, I was in the Northeast this year and I didn't realize it wasn't legal in the Northeast or like New York where I was staying, but um uh what is it, the dry needling. I've done a bunch of that. That actually has helped, like a little bit. I don't know if it's like pseudoscience or if it actually works, but um, that has helped calm like now I'm good, knock on wood, but like when I was going through the issues I was going through, like that actually helped a little bit. But yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I have done that. My PT does that, and he says there's like a lot of research that shows that it is beneficial when paired with like proper rehab activities and stuff. So it's like very intentional and like working on doing my exercises plus like chilling my muscles out. Because it basically just is like it it just is basically like poking and stimulating that muscle that's all to like tell your body to be like, yo, heal me and chill out.
SPEAKER_03:Um you know what the other thing too? Are you a cold plunge person? This sounds so broscience. No, love the cold plunge, and that actually helped me a ton.
SPEAKER_01:For your nerves.
SPEAKER_03:I I mean for I think it calmed the muscles down, like in my legs, and I think, or at least the hips got that to like relax a little bit. I do the cold plunge every day for like five to ten minutes because it's I don't know, I don't know if it actually does anything, but like at least mentally, I'm like, okay, I feel like I'm checking all the boxes here. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I will say for you, if it feels good, it probably is good. For me, it just makes me shiver the rest of the day, and I'm like, that is not beneficial. It's rough.
SPEAKER_00:It's rough.
SPEAKER_01:I support you.
SPEAKER_03:I do want to switch uh one thing. My friend would not forgive me if I didn't ask you about this. I gotta ask you about the shooting gallery. Um got five minutes to talk about it because I feel like that's such a big important aspect of you as an athlete, and we can't just gloss over that. So I want to can you talk a little bit about the shooting gallery?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the shooting gallery is the guidebook to steep skiing um in the Wasatch Range, written by Andrew McLean. Um, and so basically it has like a range of different lines. There's like some mellower, easier beginner-ish terrain of mountaineering, um, shorter lines, not super exposed, some really iconic ones that go off like the top of summits of some of the biggest peaks around here, and then some really contrived ones that are like skiing down an ice climbing route or traversing this little ribbon of snow on something. Um but all in all, it's like 93 lines that sort of take you throughout the Wasatch. Um and so I had I actually have this like um well, I had thought about this idea for a while of like I've enjoyed skiing different lines. As a Wasatch skier, you sort of like have the book and you sort of look at it when it's like game on for backcountry skiing of like, ooh, what should I ski? And you know, you're sort of like excited or it gives you direction and has sort of been formative in my like backcountry skiing career. Um, and so I'd always sort of been like curious with my little background of Nordic skiing and ultra trail running, of like, I love big days and I love big back to back to back days. Um so I was like curious on how fast can you ski the entire book? Um so I'd had this idea for a while and and purely as like a challenge, like it so excites me as this challenge of what is possible for me. Um had this idea for a while, and then this last December, Cody Townsend, who's um professional skier and a really good friend and mentor to me, he was like, You gotta just do that idea. It's like so good, Mallie. Do it. Because I've been waiting for the perfect season. And then I realized that like he told me, Cody told me this, like the perfect season's never gonna happen. I'm like, a very good point. Um, it's whatever, I mean, right? It's whatever you think is perfect. So um, so this last winter I decided I was gonna do it. It really was not lining up so well in the Wasatch, pretty bad weak snow structure, a lot of avalanches. So I just had to like wait longer and longer. Um, but I think March 12th, I worked my two shifts at the hot, I work as a nurse, so I worked my shifts at the hospital and then I started on March 12th. Um and then I just sort of went all in on that skiing every day I could. Basically, storm days were off days. Um, and otherwise I didn't take rest days, and I was trying to ski at least two lines a day, doing a lot of these link ups, and then like strategy of like if I was going into a drainage, I was skiing everything in that drainage before I went home because that was just like more efficient. And I mean it didn't always work out, like so I definitely, but that was the idea. Uh skied with a lot of different ski partners throughout it all. Um, and it's a lot of strategy of like analyzing the snow and the weather and like when to ski different lines, low elevation lines I was trying to hit first, saving the higher elevation lines. Um and yeah, it was I finished it in 47 days. Um, so the previous fastest time was by by Mark Hammond, um professional professional ultra runner, yeah. Um he did it in a season, so in five months. Um, and then the previous fastest female time was five years. Um but I would say it's like an asterisk because I don't no one had really gone into it looking at it that way. They had gone into it to complete the book, not to like see how fast they could do it all. So it was just like a new way of looking at it. Um but a really big challenge that was like, I think of I mean, I learned so much from it and I was so prepared and expecting all this, like calculating out the amount of vertical feet. And in total, I think it was just over 300,000 vertical feet that I skied in these 47 days. Um and I was so like calculating all that and just sort of like, okay, I can do that, I can put in these massive weeks. Um, and then the mental piece was what absolutely like was exhausting because I was just like always drive, always in high consequence avalanche terrain. A lot of these lines are like pretty committing over cliffs and exposure, and then like always planning what I was gonna do next and figuring out weather and just like constantly that I did start to get pretty mentally fatigued, but physically I kept feeling good, and I think to a point where I started feeling like better, like my body adapted physically. Interesting. Like my last day, I skied um one line with Adam Loomis, and we were just like chatting the whole way up. And I'm sure Adam was going like slower than his like total normal pace, but like I don't think he was slowing down a ton for me. Like that I felt good. Um and yeah, I don't know. That was that was uh a lot of fun. So now uh now I'm doing a YouTube series. So there's it's it gonna be a 10-part YouTube series coming out of my YouTube. I'm at episode four, but every two weeks I launch a new episode just recounting, recounting the whole experience and everything.
SPEAKER_03:So cool. I I mean I've got a few questions to ask off this as well. Like one, it's it's you're I mean, we'll link in the show notes so listeners can follow along and uh subscribe and and tune in, but like how much of a pain in the ass was it to like get like like uh more so like record stuff while you're doing this hard effort and get like video.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, what a good question. Probably because you podcast, you like understand this stuff. Yeah, it's it's so much work. You're like, I just want to ski, and I was like the audio engineer technically. So it'd like be giving everyone their little microphones and like syncing it on my phone, and it's like freaking three in the morning and I'm on day whatever. Um, and then of course the sync isn't happening, or you're like SD card is wrong.
SPEAKER_02:And you're like, oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then but filming was really easy. Well, easy relatively, it's just GoPro and like iPhones. Um, just sort of had like decided that like I mean, the new iPhone is just so good. Really just you want the GoPro. Yeah, so it's like I have enough GoPros that I would just like give GoPros to my friends and they're all in the right settings, and then like that meant I had the SD cards and batteries all dialed, and then just film with your iPhone on horizontal. Um, and recognizing too, I feel like on YouTube slash in this time and age with like media and as we're talking about influencers before and stuff, people like care for authenticity and they don't care for these like super cinematic shots and all that. Like those are nice to sort of give you a place in time, but like in the end, people like love to just see you and what you're doing and like the rawness of it. Um, I think is actually really appreciated on YouTube.
SPEAKER_03:So cool. Yeah, like I said, we'll link it in the show notes for so folks can follow along. And like I said, I just have a really strong appreciation for it, not just because it's an insanely difficult effort, but also like it's a pain in the ass to get all that stuff and put it all together and then cut it, and then I'm sure you have hundreds of hours of like stuff too to like narrow down and then figure out is this a good shot? Does this fit? Does this work? Yeah, it's uh it's not my finer stuff trying to figure that stuff out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I am working with an editor that I have a very good relationship with, so he's like better at it in like editing world. We call it like killing your babies, where you have to like cut so many shots that you're like, that's so good. Um, but you get good at like what's the bigger story, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and yeah, or there's like plenty of times where I'm like, oh nice. I I don't know, you mess up some shots, so you're like, oh, we just don't have that now.
SPEAKER_03:But so true. It's working. So true. Yeah, Smallet, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was a great conversation. Hopefully, the first of many. I I'm really excited to see uh you know what you're able to do with this 2026 year. And you know, hopefully the snow falls and you know things work out. And yeah, I really appreciate you coming on the pod and thanks so much for a conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right back at you. Um yeah, thanks for sharing the nerve stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. We can talk more about that offline. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. I think we're what'd you guys think? Oh man, I want to thank Mally so much for coming on the show. What an amazing human and just so inspiring. Some of the shit that she's done, dude. Oh my gosh. Like the shooting gallery project is just so bananas. Um, so guys, the best way you can follow her and support her, and if you want to learn more about some of the amazing things that she's doing in the mountains, go to her YouTube page. It's gonna be linked in the show notes, but very simply, if you just type in Mally Noise on YouTube at Mally Noise LastName N O Y E S, you can find her on YouTube and subscribe. Um, I don't normally give kudos to creators, but dude, like talk about one human that's like really inspiring because she's walking the walk and talking the talk. She's doing doing the damn thing at a high level and also putting it out there to the world to see. Um her videos are amazing, super interesting, and uh, yeah, for a complete ski novice like myself that's interested in this stuff, uh, it's it's pretty amazing. So definitely give her a follow. You can also type in the Mally channel um or Mally Noise, and you'll be able to find either way. Like I said, it'll be linked in the show notes. Uh, you can also find her on Instagram, give her a follow there. It's also an extension of her uh YouTube page with her storytelling. She puts some good stuff up as well about how to prep for things like ski season. Um, very inspiring for women trying to get into the space as well. Um, just inspiring in general from the routes she puts up. She's a beast. Um so yeah, give her a follow on Instagram and you can find her there on Mally Noise. Incredible human. Um, yeah, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. It's Thanksgiving week. Um having some fun here. Got a few more episodes to drop before Turkey Day. Um, hope you guys enjoy. Really appreciate you following along. If you have been enjoying the podcast, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Give the YouTube page a subscription. Yay, we're at like 100 followers. We're doing the damn thing. Um, and as for Apple and Spotify, if you guys are loving that, please give us a five-star rating review. It helps with this thing called discoverability. Apparently that's a thing. Um, and last but very, very not least, please support our brand partner, Ultimate Direction. Head on over to ultimatedirection.com. Use code SteepSuff Pod. That's one word steepstuff pod for 25% off your cart. Appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much.
