The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Talking Prize Money with Erik from Run.Fund
The sport keeps growing, the livestreams keep improving, and the fields get deeper every year—so why do so many iconic ultras still offer zero prize money? We sit down with Eric, the builder behind Run Fund, to unpack a direct, no-drama solution: let the community and sponsors crowdfund purses that pay athletes fairly and transparently. No betting, no gimmicks, just clean rails that move money from fans and brands to finishers.
We dig into how Run Fund works behind the scenes—escrowed funds, Stripe payouts in seven to ten days, and simple tax handling—plus the decision to split purses 50-50 for men and women by default. Eric explains why the platform leans on existing adjudication for races and FKTs, how it handles athletes serving sanctions, and what happens when a drug test lands months after the podium photos. We also explore the “nonprofit” defense from legacy races, the quiet dependence on brand bonuses, and what it means for an unsponsored winner to take home nothing while a contract athlete cashes a check for the same result.
The conversation stretches from six-figure short trail purses to the potential of FKT bounties on iconic routes like the AT, where attempts demand serious logistics and community support. We talk partnerships with organizers who want the visibility of prize money without building new infrastructure, and why grassroots races can benefit just as much as marquee events—because $500 to a regional winner can pull a whole club onto a start line next year. Eric shares early targets like HURT and Black Canyon, thoughts on future international expansion, and a fan-first vision that boosts engagement without crossing into gambling.
If you care about fair pay, athlete pathways, and a healthier event ecosystem, this one’s for you. Hit play, then tell us: which race should get a crowdfunded purse next? Subscribe, share with a friend who races, and drop a review to keep the conversation moving.
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host of James L'Oreal. And today I'm so excited to talk prize money in our sport. Hot button topic. I think it's definitely worth a conversation. This time around, I am joined by Eric from the Run Fund. Run Fund is the viral startup business that has uh kind of hit the trail and ultra running space by storm over the last month. It's gotten a lot of chatter on a bunch of different podcasts and spaces and definitely worthy of a conversation because of the need that Eric fills in the sport. We had a conversation to talk about the founding of the business, the reason, the need that it solves. And then we talked a lot about prize money in the sport and not really letting races off the hook and just kind of the economics of why certain races, particularly in the ultra scene, don't have prize money. We talked about Western states, we talked about hard rock, talked a lot about a lot of era Viper races, and we also compared them to races like Broken Arrow that this year had a almost uh I think it was a$160,000 prize purse, um, as well as other races in Short Trail that seem to offer really exciting prize purses. Um this is this is a fun episode. Um if you guys have uh questions, concerns, uh disagreements, throw them in the comments. Let's hear them. Um, but I definitely think this is uh part of a bigger conversation in the sport that needs to be had on the discussion of prize money. And I think this might be a mini-series that I might tackle into the future. Like I think there needs to be more discussion on this, um, where we hold races and organizations accountable for uh like for race money and prize money, because I think it's something in this sport as it continues to grow, evolve, and professionalize. Um, we need to be talking about prize money because now that uh more athletes are making a living from it, uh it's as important as ever. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. Eric from the Run Fund talking prize money. Ladies and gentlemen, we Eric, how's it going? Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you? Good. Thanks, James. Yeah, yeah. Glad to be here. Absolutely. I'm excited to have this conversation. You uh you got you came across my radar probably about a week ago now for your business that you started, uh, the Run Fund, which is pretty cool. I think it definitely solves a uh a massive need in the space, and I think there's a lot of interesting conversation around that. So um maybe maybe give me the five-second elevator pitch on this business and and we'll go from there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh run fund is really uh kind of again born out of hearing stuff in the community and in the scene. It's really uh, you know, any race can raise a purse, uh prize purse. Um, you know, it can be community funded, so just folks kind of crowdsource model. Um, but then also, you know, it makes it really easy for sponsors to dip in and and you know contribute purse money as well, or uh, you know, race organizers can use it too to get some uh engagement and attention for their events.
SPEAKER_01:Very cool. How how did you come up with the idea? Was it just you had just been keeping an eye on the space? You're an athl are you an athlete in the sport and you felt like there was a need there? Like what's the the fullback story on the idea?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So, you know, uh I've been a runner for for 13 years or so, um, kind of all that time, really into the trail scene, kind of started doing a lot of it back and lived in Boulder for four or five years, uh, and you just like can't avoid it out there. Uh, and finally like ripped the band-aid off this year and did my first 50k. Uh, and in January, though, you know, I was going through the whole like, okay, planning drop bags and planning out like what's my fueling strategy and all that. Uh, and and like, you know, as as an aside, I'm also kind of a lifelong software developer, product manager type of person. So to me, it's like if I see someone using a spreadsheet for something, like bells and whistles go off my head, like, here's a problem we can solve. So started building little apps around like drop bags, aid stations, as I'm kind of like coming across these funny little problems that you know, race directors try and solve or athletes, runners, you know, as as you're planning it, there's just like so much logistics when it comes to you know, running these or participating or you know, anything like that. Uh and yeah, you know, just having been kind of steeped in the scene, like no pun intended there. Uh it's like people, you know, people are writing about prize purses, people are talking about it. Um, you know, you've got some big purses out there in a few races, uh, but you know, there's a lot of open questions on like, you know, how how or why isn't it more you know present in the sport, I guess. Uh and you know, yeah, whipped, whipped it up uh over the last month or so. Uh and yeah, kind of pleasantly surprised how the the feedback, right? I uh a lot of folks are kind of coming out and saying, like, I've been thinking about this for a long time, seems like it addresses a real need. So uh yeah, I think you know, now the proof will be like in the pudding, right? Like there's no more excuse really. Like, hopefully, this is a way to really make it easy and at least facilitate, you know, if you want it, you know, if you want a prize purse at a at an event, like you know, come and get it, kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think it's a great idea. And and like we talked about, it it is a very big need in the space. And for some reason, this is weird. This is a weird problem we have because I feel like Short Trail doesn't have this issue because most of the bigger races, like Broken Arrow, for instance, just announced$30,000 to each of the winner, uh, men, men and women winners for the 23k. In total, it's$160,000 in a prize purse, which is amazing. The Rutt has prize money, the Cirque Series has prize money, but for some reason, and I don't know what it is about ultra running in general, the biggest races in the sport that demand the most conversation when it comes to the ultra scene do not have prize money. Um, so I think this is definitely a need in the space, and um, we'll get into that as we go. I do I do want to dive into like some of the nuts and bolts of the business because I do find this very interesting. Um, I come from a finance and like hedge fund background. I gotta ask you the question on, and maybe this is like two nuts and bolts, but pooled investment fund or pooled fund, if you will. Um, did you go through like the whole regulatory and SEC process for this? Or is it more just crowdfunding where the money will sit idle in cash after let's say me, Joe Schmoe, wants to invest and I'll put in, I don't know, a thousand dollars for a Western states pool. Will that money just sit there idle cash and not move? Or is that get invested and put back into something speculatory or non? Um like how how does that process work?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. You got that hedge fund hat on right there. Um the you know, to start, it's very just simple, straightforward, right? The money's gonna sit there. Um, you know, I really wanted to just keep it simple to start, um, you know, by by that money just going and sitting. Um, and then it makes it very easy to just turn around and and pay it out. And then, you know, there is a little bit of the tax logistics, like if that payout exceeds, you know, 500 or 1,000 bucks, like, you know, the the athlete's gonna have to file a form uh you know after that. But um, you know, from my from my side of it, uh it it stays pretty simple and easy that way. I think you know, you're definitely on to something. Like if we're talking um, you know, a race like uh, you know, further out, you know, like let's say it's six months out, 12 months out, right? Uh, and we're sitting on thousands of dollars, right? Like you you could make some interesting, which is kind of right, right. And and and in a way, it's it's you know, right now kind of operating as like an escrow, right? Like a a hold, uh, versus I think, you know, when kind of maybe where you're you're going there a little bit too is like there are some creative ways you could approach it more like an insurance company or or see it as like a float and you know, and and not to get like too uh too tricky with it, but I think you could, you know, at some point if if the market's there, if if I think, you know, I think if you could see some that recurring ability and you and you can kind of trust that you've got some inbound in the future and it's working, um, you know, maybe, maybe there's some value-oriented opportunities to say, like, yeah, let's leverage this money in the short term, maybe get some points, you know, some basis points on that, turn around and use that as a as a mechanism to invest in the sport, also, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like oh, there's opportunities, dude. I see dollar signs when I see this business. Um yeah, that that's that's the hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, let's get it, let's uh steer away from the finance stuff and let's get into the business itself um and certain selections. So, like one of the things I found was really cool uh was the FKT. Like there's opportunities there for um FK, obviously for funds to be raised for FKT athletes and getting FKTs. How would that selection go? Is it more so like are you gonna throw it out to the audience on what they want a crowdfund for? Is it gonna be like your selection? Like, how will that work on uh the FKT side?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's uh like I I think first and foremost, like run fund should not be the gatekeeper of any of this. Like, you know, I think the the important thing here is like if if someone wants something on there and they don't see it, like they can ask for it. And you know, my criteria currently is really mostly around like, do we have uh kind of like an adjudicating body who can say, you know, yes, this person, you know, accomplished this FKT, for example, or finished this race, right? So that's where you know it's it's easy to lean on like fastest known time, for example, to publish like James did finish you know this FKT or did complete it per the rules, right? Um and I think that's that's probably where um you're you know the main criteria, right? As long as you know you can have someone who will stand behind it and then the community is you know buys into that uh you know officiated result is is really the main thing. Uh I think at the moment, um, you know, having you know honestly just kicked this all off recently, I think there's you know, I'm still gonna be pulling in fastest known times and m many more races, right? Like certainly you see on there, like there is, you know, not everything's accounted for. Um, you know, I'm I'm continuing to like knock on doors, like I think you know, partnerships with like fastest known time, ultra sign up, you know, all of those kind of that handle things like the registration and logistics from that end, um, you know, if there was a way to partner there, I think that would expedite it. But again, like I I don't think that's necessary either. Like, I think the community should also be able to say, you know, we want to track uh, you know, Apple and Trail, fastest known time, right? And throw it in. And and year after year, if no one's getting it in that pot's building, right? Like, hopefully you see more and more people who are just getting hungrier to go get it.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's really cool. I think it adds a whole different dynamic, especially to the FKT side that we've never seen before. Like, so for instance, like the grind. Um, you know, obviously that's steeped in lore and now controversy with some of the stuff that happened with Mikelino. Like, I don't know, like Mikelino's a friend of mine. Like, I think that effort, I mean, and especially you look at like what Jane did this year and on the women's side, dude, though that effort's a 50-60, in my opinion, 50-60 at least thousand dollar uh undertaking, you know, especially given the fact that that record on the men's side has not been broken since 2012 before uh Mike took it. So yeah, it's it's kind of cool that the the population, the the athletes in the sport, the the fans can can kind of uh donate to that and they'll have a say in in what that FKT or that race in general would be worth in theory, which is kind of neat. I think it's cooler on the on the FKT side, which is uh unique.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, there are a couple of interesting things there. Like on the AT. I mean, you know, some folks spend tens, thousand hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, over multiple attempts sometimes with logistics and supported by sponsors too. But you know, there's there's money being spent to, you know, knock those down. Um and the yeah, you know, we can get get to this too at some point, but like the Michelino point is, you know, it's interesting like how how that adjudication and like you know who approves what and how does that what does that look like, you know, and and does the community, you know, like we have to support these payouts ultimately, right? And to keep the integrity.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it's it's it's uh yeah, and there brings a lot of nuance to it too. On the nuanced topic, I do have a question for you about drug testing. Um, what is like how because I know samples take sometimes time to come back, and then for even them to be released to the public, uh, if there is a a positive result for something, how will that work for some of the larger races, like Western states or uh I don't know, I would assume hard rock tests? I have no idea, to be honest with you. I know Western states does, obviously, but some of these larger, more prominent um uh I guess you could say races with uh uh drug testing available, any golden ticket race as well too. Um, what is kind of the procedure, or what will the procedure be as far as payouts for athletes um in tandem with the drug testing results?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh probably my the most popular question I've kind of gotten from from the world at this point. Uh you know, the the starting point is really that you know we will look at like like the the main criteria kind of by default is if you're currently serving a sanction due to a drug violation um you know based on kind of the bulk of the governing bodies, uh, that you're ineligible for that. Um I think this it speaks to an opportunity like in in my eyes, like that if if a race team kind of sees a prize purse growing here, right? That uh it is an opportunity to say, like, hey, you know, we want you to wait for tests, kind of post-race tests to come in, for example. Um, I think one thing like Run Fund does not want to get into is like operating our own testing or kind of like enforcing any of this, right? So in in a you know, for starters, it's like let's let's use kind of that consensus, you know, are you currently serving something or not? Um in the event that we can you know look at the event's official results after three to seven days-ish, you know, like I think that would be that ideal turnaround time, particularly for the the athletes to get paid. Um and I know that some of the drug testing takes a bit longer sometimes. I think and and then I think there's sometimes you know, a test doesn't come through till months later, right? And when we see that, and it's like, oh wait a minute, we're gonna go uh you know, reneg on this result. I think you know that's going to be probably one of the most interesting things to solve as run fund kind of evolves, is um, you know, what does it look like to go try and claw back funds, right? Um hopefully how doesn't happen. For real, yeah. Like, you know, I'd I'd like to think that you know that that if that does happen, you know, it's it's something that like the person is clearly identified, right? So it's not like someone's gonna be able to be juicing and make and bank on these week after week, right? Like I think that's ultimately what we don't want to encourage as a sport is like you know, full-time athleticism that's you know kind of based on unhealthy practices, right? Yeah, that's what I understand.
SPEAKER_01:It's an interesting thing too, because I I mean I think the big question is yeah, the callback will be interesting on how you I guess just get some fancy legal jargon in there and and hopefully the athlete's scared enough to pay that back.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. And and as part of this too, now what you know, we've got kind of an attestation from the athletes when you kind of associate your name to a result, right? That like, you know, I I guarantee or I, you know, I pledge effectively that uh I did it clean and there's no issues. Um I think that's you know, for for most prized purses, I think it's probably gonna ultimately end up with quite a long tail of smaller purses to some hopefully large ones. But you know, I think it's it's those large ones that particularly this it gets sticky, right? Yeah, it's it's hard to give someone fifty thousand dollars and really if there's no strings attached, like go back and get it back. Yeah, no, I I totally agree.
SPEAKER_01:Um okay, so we covered drug testing. I how to um what is the time period on payouts? I think that was a piece of the uh the uh the write-up that I wanted to get to as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh all all of it's kind of up operated through Stripe Connect. So um basically the athlete would need, you know, gets kind of onboarded into that, and it's effectively a bank transfer over. So it's a seven to ten day uh money movement, um, basically bank to bank. Uh yeah. And again, it's it's uh you know, Stripe then helps with that uh kind of that tax forms and helps automate that. So that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:Um I lost my train, I thought that I was gonna ask you. Um 50-50 for men and women. That was another thing. Um and then you charge on for the bus as a business expense 10%. Is that correct? Plus the stripe fee. Yep, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. The there was, you know, for the the kind of gender split on that was another piece of feedback that came from the community too, where um, you know, to start my my intent, you know, good intentions, and there's some continues on that's that saying or something, but uh road to hell and good intentions or something. Um You know, initially I'd started where each each purse was kind of divisionally specific, right? So you could have a purse that was specifically for women, specifically for men. Um, you know, I the intent there to start was like this gives an opportunity to like focus, like focus and highlight on, you know, here is a women's purse, like let's just send it to the moon, right? Um, I think and and I, you know, people spoke up, and I think I think it's correct and legit that it's like, you know, unless you have some mechanism there to sort of keep them in check, like it's just gonna open up weird situations where it's like, how do you really keep them aligned? So I think it just simplified it a lot to say, okay, one purse per kind of distance event uh and 50-50, and and that makes it easy.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think that's perfect. Uh I I got a question about um uh betting, gambling. This is not gambling. Um and I and you do a really good job on your website of making sure it's it's noted that this is not gambling. Um that said, I'm not saying that I'm I'm into that, but I will say one thing. This is a great framework of a starting place for that if you ever wanted to do that for trail running.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I think you know, there's it's interesting. I don't know, you know, you've got platforms now like Calchi, for example, like they're and and a lot of their business hypothesis is really driven on this kind of current vibe going on where like people want, you know, by by putting in five dollars or ten dollars, whether it's a bet or you know, some probability there, like you you kind of feel engaged with it at least. And I think, you know, while this doesn't result in like money back to you if you contribute to a purse, like I my hope is that it's it's a similar sort of kind of rush and sense of like ownership or participation in the event, too, right? Like I I watch, you know, like if a run is on, you know, if Mountain Outpost is streaming a run, like you better believe like we're up on the couch watching it on the weekend and you know, we're in the YouTube chats and we're like, you know, doing shout-outs and stuff. Uh, and it's like, you know, if if I had five or ten bucks in the prize purse, um, you know, like I'm gonna pay a little bit more attention to it, you know. I'm gonna feel more engaged and more excited by like whoever wins, you know, the outcome. So I think I think you're right. Like, there's it's a similar feeling, uh, but obviously, you know, I think I think there's plenty of ethical reasons why like getting into the gambling and the betting and you know it's a little weird. Well, right. Well, not to say it's not like exciting or interesting. I think, yeah, to start again, like keep it simple.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, regulatory. I I know I the regulatory thing is really difficult to overcome. But if you and Free Trail ever got together and put this platform with a free trail fantasy platform, uh yeah, I think there's an opportunity there.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think there's you know, you don't in I think there's even some fun ways like Free Trail, right? Like you don't get money back, but still, like if it's sort of like a a friendly pot or you know, friendly kind of a team thing. Again, like if I've bought in, it's still a little bit fun to go play some probability, even if I don't, you know, get rewarded on the other side of it. Yeah, no, for sure. 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Um, okay, let's get into the difficult stuff. This is this is uh this is the meat and bones of the conversation that I've been wanting to get to. So you solve an obvious need, but the the the reason we have this need is and this points to my frustration with races like Western states and races like hard rock and other races in Ultra, to where obviously this need is there, but it almost, in my opinion, in some ways lets races off the hook. So, for instance, like Western States, for example, claims they're a nonprofit organization, and they've always stated that you know, because of we have nonprofit status and because we're the that type of organization, we've always chosen not to do payouts and not do prize money. I'm on the board of directors for Pikes Peak. Pikes Peak Marathon is a is a uh is a nonprofit organization. We do prize money, like great prize money. So I've always seen that as like that as an excuse, if you will. And I know this might be a controversial statement, but I just it doesn't sit right with me that we let races off the hook for not doing prize money, especially in the same thing with Aero Vipa. You know, they've always claimed, hey, like we're going to invest our monies into drug testing. And we'd rather not do prize purses, we'd rather do drug testing for races like your black pain in 100 or 100k or uh your javelinas and things like that. And that's all great and dandy, but like these um you solve this need to where some of these performances um you know are 50, 60, 100,000 level performances for the work that goes into it. What are you what is your take on that? What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I I tend to agree. I think like obviously there's there's a lot there. I think, you know, for one, the it's an interesting sport in general that sort of emerged organically. And so there's still, I think, a lot of sentiment or perceived sentiment that like it's not about the money, right? It's not about winning, it's about the journey or you know, and and the experience, right? And the the athletes. I think at the same time, I think you are right. Like, kind of like I said, you know, we are if if Mountain Outpost is something that's on YouTube streaming, uh, you know, we're watching it, and you see tens of thousands of you know viewers on those things, right? Like it is it is a draw. Um, and and so I think to find a way to you know compensate the athletes that make you know that bring the eyeballs to that thing makes a lot of sense, right? I think you you do sort of externalize or you know, uh, you know, what's whatever, like you you kind of let someone else, like a sponsor, sort of own that. And so you say, well, if you do win, you know, Western states, yeah, like, yeah, it's a you know, it's true, you're probably gonna go get approached by some sponsors, um, and maybe there is something for you on the other side, right? But it's it's not a guarantee for one. And it's also like, you know, those aren't like living wages either. And and it still doesn't necessarily like reward the fact that maybe you're hitting a whole bunch of like 50 milers or 100 milers throughout the year as well that take money to get to. You want to kind of, you know, whether it's a tune-up at 50k or 50 miles, like, you know, it still doesn't necessarily compensate you for that. And and and those folks, you know, like are still working their butts off in a day job or or a night job so they can train during the day. Uh, so I think, yeah, you know, there's it it's meant to kind of fill that and I think also sort of like level up a lot of those races, you know, the bulk of the races that are out there in in kind of this ultra range, where you know, they they are a shoestring budget, right? They're volunteers running it. If they're lucky, they might break even on expenses, definitely not time and labor. Um, and so I think to to give them this sort of mechanism to draw in eyeballs, right?
SPEAKER_01:Because having a purse there is is always going to be a better motivator as well for you know and I think I think it democratizes that as well to where, yeah, if there is, let's say on your platform, if there's, I don't know, even like let's say$8,000, right? And prize money for let's say Chuck and Nut, like that gets more eyeballs on it. Um, I do want to double back and say one thing. Like the person I think of is like Will Murray, right? Unsponsored guy, goes and has the race of his life at something like Javelina, and dude isn't sponsored, so he's not getting a race bonus or a performance bonus of any kind. And I think that's one of the things in the sport where uh we've just come into this level of professionalization to where um we've just relied so for so long on brands to subsidize race, really race bonus, like with race bonuses, subsidize prize money. And that has always made me scratch my head. And it's like, what about athletes like someone like Will Murray, um, unsponsored, comes up, has a probably a$50,000 to$60,000 level performance with all the work that goes into winning a race like that and gets absolutely nothing for it. So yeah, I think that this is where this is where your need definitely comes in, where that type of athlete will get the get a payout or get something. Um now, sure, I'm sure you know he's a well-like person, he's a great athlete. I'm sure he'll probably get signed, but unless unless you're a really good agent, then he's probably not getting anything for that Halloween or uh Javelina win. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it and and it truth, you know, totally like it it means that even if you're on the same starting line, you know, as someone else, like you are each not you are not running for the same thing, right? If I've got a a bonus at the end of it that I'm running for, um, and the person next to me doesn't, you know, like that changes the dynamic of the race, right? And and so I think totally like in in terms of that democratization, I think it's also like democratizes that that group at the top, right? Like, you know, you're not you you see a lot of these kind of weekend warrior style races where you know, maybe someone comes in and maybe they are in that elite status and they finish an hour ahead of everyone else, right? Well, it's like, well, if if there was a purse there, maybe there would have been a higher level of competition, maybe there was a would have been a bigger fight. Um, yeah, just kind of flatten, flatten the curve a little bit at the top there and and make it, I guess, a little wider more than flatter. Yeah, if that makes sense. Oh, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Well, um, as far as like some payouts and stuff like that, like is there a chance like you go to Western states and get you bring the big check with you and you're you're spirit, because I think this is a very scalable thing. And I think as this business grows and you become more of a person in the sport and and people know who you are and who your business is, like, dude, you should be out there with the big check, hand in people style.
SPEAKER_00:I think it'd be kind of sweet, right? Totally, totally. I mean, and you know, I think that's that's where like I I definitely don't want to like jump in and bowl in a China shop and step on a bunch of toes. Like, if at a scale of like Western states, like I would love you know to see that that be more of a partnership, right? Like, if anything, like it'd be great for them to hand the check over, right? Um, and and for them to have had some sort of uh you know interaction and participation in driving up that purse as well, right? It it makes it very easy for them to do because it's like their hands are technically off of it, um, but could still sort of endorse it in a way. Um but yeah, no, I I mean, yeah, completely agree. I think getting because that's ultimately too, right? Like the narrative that I think sponsors and races and the athletes want is like, I got this winning, right? Like we, you know, if if someone wins some money, like you know, we want to be loud and proud about that. And I think that drives interest in future races and brings more people into the sport, you know.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I've got a feeling this thing's gonna grow really quick. Are you are you ready for like it's and I'm sure people are gonna have views and all like it's like having a podcast, man. Everybody's got their own views and things to say, and this, that, and the other. Are you prepared and ready for uh what's to come probably throughout the summer?
SPEAKER_00:I I would love that. I think you know, I think the it would be incredibly exciting. Like I think, you know, I've kind of started it with this idea that like in a in a perfect world, I would go and just travel around to all the cool races because I'm sure as hell, like not going to get into western states anytime soon or you know, like any of these elite races. But uh I I definitely feel like a lot of the folks in the in the kind of scene, like I just like to chill out at starting lines and trailheads and in the forests and mountains and deserts, right? So uh yeah, if if it does, if it works, if people like it, then that would be awesome.
unknown:Very cool.
SPEAKER_01:And is the like kind of the not an end idea, but as you go along, I I mean, and you kind of hinted at this and said something along the lines of a west western states, but I almost feel like this is the opportunity for races if they don't have prize purses to partner with you to create to help create this pool. Um, and they don't really have to do anything other than cut a check, it just makes life a little bit easier for them, and you can kind of serve as this middleman.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, totally. I think like that's that's certainly, you know, as as I think of kind of that like profiles of people who interact from a from a race standpoint, you know. I think of course there is this big opportunity for the larger groups who maybe have, for one reason or another, not gotten to the point where they're doing doing a prize purse or anything. Um, but even those smaller ones, you know, like if if you get a hundred people, you know, at uh 50k or 100k, it's kind of a cool regional weekend warrior type of thing, you know, you get in, you know, some sponsorships from you know, some coffee shops, some running shops, all of a sudden you've got a few thousand bucks. And, you know, across you know, six finishers, men and women on on a distance, right? Like$500 to someone who kind of just dabbles in this is like super exciting. Uh, and I think moves the needle, you know, as much as when we see a big payout to an elite athlete, right? And and if like I think that's kind of another interesting direction, I think that I hope it kind of goes is this like grassroots, like the running club effect, where like if someone wins 500 bucks or a thousand bucks, like boom, like 10 people they know are gonna be like, whoa, like I could do that, I'm gonna go do that. And and I think it the hope would be that it just kind of like lifts everything up in a multiplier effect. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Have you started reaching out to Risa, being like, I this is this is what I have to offer, and like this is what I have.
SPEAKER_00:Like if you if you started like kind of having those conversations, a little bit, and and starting to obviously a bit more, I you know, I think started slow and making sure to have answers for what came up most immediately, which was you know, how do you handle the drug testing? Uh let's make sure you know we have kind of fair and balanced payout structures, right, for everyone who's involved. Um, and I, you know, I think so we haven't we haven't done a payout yet. So I think that's that's probably a big milestone as well, right? That it's like, okay, did they get, you know, did people get paid out? Is is this legit? You know, does this work how it was supposed to work? Um, and you know, I don't I don't know if that's what it's kind of waiting for in terms of momentum or not, or or what, but uh yeah. What's the first pool that you have uh on the calendar right now? Is it gonna be wait chuck enough or hurt hurt 100? Um so I yeah, kind of stage it so give a little time for you know, word to get out, interest to get out. Um you know, hurt hurt has no uh purse. And again, you know, if if someone's out there and they see something on there that does have kind of a conflicting purse, like that's also like something I want to avoid, right? Like I don't want to come and try and compete with with folks who do have that already. But uh yeah, hurt hurt's kind of the big first one, and then I think it goes right to Black Canyon, um, which yeah, you know, I don't I don't know, per perhaps generates a a bit more media interest from kind of the the spectator standpoint, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean that's that's a great one because that one's gonna have a ton of media around it, so there's plenty of opportunities there to promote and get yourself out there. And yeah. What are you gonna be racing this year? You got any any get any racing plans?
SPEAKER_00:So um I'm I'm probably gonna do a 50k in the spring and then the summer, and then try and gear up for 50 miles in October, November 26. So try to stay healthy and stretch and run.
SPEAKER_01:Stretching's a really important thing.
SPEAKER_00:These hips, this lower back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's good when you're a software engineer. You probably so you probably sit a lot during the day for work, right?
SPEAKER_00:I'm well, you see me here. I'm standing, I'm up. I gotta yeah, I've been standing for a long time now, but or you know, I think it's important the standing desk.
SPEAKER_01:Hips are the way to go. I've got a uh yeah, I've got mine goes up and down. Uh yeah, it's good stuff. Um is there anything you feel like we didn't cover? I wanted to make sure we kind of all encompassing, got all the nuts and bolts of the business, and at least got like fundamentally something out there for the audience to connect with and understand and listen to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I don't I don't think so. I think it's just you know, kind of this open question still in a way of like um, you know, the validation of of this idea. Like if if I'm watching a race, like is, you know, does does the community, does the world like are do we want to drop five bucks or ten bucks or fifty or a hundred uh you know, to help drive the results of these things, right? And I think that's kind of the the the real pitch, right? Like, you know, stop being a spectator, let's see if we can move the needle and and affect the results. And I think as as you see, you know, one race affected, and again, like this grassroots kind of hypothesis, you know, as that builds, um, you know, do we just see the sport grow and and interest grow and and perhaps then, you know, more of these conversations around like what does it look to professionalize the sport more and support you know elite tiers, um, and also make sure that you know, regionally and and kind of these like village events as well as as a kind of you know, I like that that term, uh, grow as well and and just you know make sure everyone kind of feels excited about it. I think, you know, like you you can't lace up and go play with LeBron like you know, on the court, but like ultra ultra races for the most part, unless they have like that elite corral that you just can't get into unless you hop the fence, um, you know, you can line up with the best of the best at a lot of these, right? And and effectively race for the same thing. And it's just you know, your physiology may be the only difference there. Uh so I think it's it's a cool it's a cool arena to play in, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:Is there any plans to expand to European races as well?
SPEAKER_00:I I would love to. I think the energy is definitely out there. I think the spectator, you know, the the level of spectator support is higher over there as well when you see kind of the quality of live streams and things like that. Just I think by nature of there, you know, the circuits are a little bit tighter and smaller geographically, but um I'll say like the tax situation right now. I'm just like uh, you know, I don't want to right, right. I want to be like, let's let's just validate it here. Uh in the states, taxes are easier, or you know, at least you know, a little more grounded given the infrastructure. But you know, the cool thing is, you know, Stripe is like again with with Stripe as the main rail for all the finances here, you know, it's like, okay, do you want to accept Euros now or or some other currency? It's just like effectively a box you check. Um, so I would I would love to. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm interested to hear more of that. this tax on the taxation as it as it expands. That's like something I really don't know too much about and it's I don't know, it's interesting. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think as as long as we stay out of that wagering and the betting and you know, that's that's the sticky messy part.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, I get sticky. Well then you're a uh then you're a casino essentially. I think it's weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. See I don't I don't even know how to gamble. Like I've I I have no idea how to buy a lottery ticket. So this is it's not my thing.
SPEAKER_01:Well listen Eric I want to say thank you so much for your time. I think this was a great starting point. Awesome conversation um and I really appreciate you being open to answering everything I've been throwing at you. So let's uh let's definitely get a part two in there somewhere in the next six months to a year as as the business continues to grow and uh catch wind amongst the sport and yeah appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. I appreciate it too thank you awesome.
SPEAKER_01:What a fun episode. I hope you guys enjoyed this one I want to thank Eric so much for coming on and uh being willing to deal with some of my questions and uh being open to riffing on the sport the prize money conversation and talk about his business. Like I said I think there's a lot of need for this right now in this weird transitory period in our sport where um not all races offer prize money. It's definitely a hot topic conversation and I think he solves the need. I think there could be even a need as well for races to be able to partner with him in the future. And maybe that's a segment of the business that would grow. I think there's a lot of opportunities here though so for more conversation and banter. But I hope every one of you listening to this scratches your head and wonders why some of the biggest races in Ultra don't have prize money. This drives me nuts. Why is it that all the short trail races have prize money or a lot of the big ones the ones on the biggest stages in North America and in Europe but it's not that way especially in North America in the Ultra scene. And this is something that I think if you want change, if you're an athlete in the sport and maybe interested in this and listening to it, if you want change, I think the conversation needs to be posed and brought up. So um I appreciate you all for listening and giving this one a go. Whether you agree with me or disagree, I think it's important to just have the conversation. You know maybe it's not the best thing for that part of the sport. Maybe I'm just a short trail guy that should just stay in my own lane. But I definitely have pointed that out that I think as the sport professionalizes I think athletes need to be getting paid and that's a conversation that needs to be had so enjoy this one appreciate it. If you guys um uh liked it give us a five star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or YouTube. Uh if not still subscribe whatever appreciate it uh guys more fun stuff down the lane uh more conversation to be had we've got a State of Steep stuff podcast dropping soon um we've got a lot of stuff for the end of the year that I think will be a lot of fun so appreciate y'all thank you for the
