The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
The Sub Stack Short Trail News - Episode 2
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Start with a helmet-required skyrace where five to six hours at altitude is just the warm-up, then jump to an Olympic mixed relay finish decided by seconds. That’s the energy we ride as we unpack a month that felt like a full season: Four Refugios fireworks, Anna Gibson and Cam Smith nearly nabbing a medal, and a Black Canyon weekend that proved how fast trail running has become.
We break down why Kelly McChrystal’s course record matters beyond a single win—technical fluency, risk management, and South American depth are resetting expectations. Then we relive the Olympic sprint-to-relay arc and ask the big what-if: how would a vertical event tip the podium toward pure uphill specialists? Back in Arizona, we parse the 50K and 100K storylines—from late-race surges to course record composure—and talk honestly about why road stars can shake up the field yet still face a different sport on dirt: downhill economy, fueling on uneven terrain, and heat pacing.
The business side hits just as hard. We map free agency moves—Grayson Murphy and Joseph Gray’s open lanes, Arc’teryx landing Jane Moss and Kyle Richardson, Nike ACG adding Jennifer Lichter—and what they signal about team-building and athlete value. Then we translate the alphabet soup of series into plain English: Golden Trail now counts four best results plus a heavyweight final, adds segment points and team rankings; Skyrunner splits red vs white races to concentrate elite matchups; WRMA World Cup rewards volume and brings the strongest governance and testing. If you’re choosing a calendar, we outline how travel, recovery, and points interact so you can peak where it pays.
We also debut two fresh mountain tests: Cirque Series Jay Peak in Vermont and Mount Baldy in Southern California, creating a true coast-to-coast arc from June to October. Finally, we detail US selections for WRMA finals in Quebec and Poland, and how athletes can thread series goals with national team ambitions without burning matches too early. Tap play for strategy, results, and a candid look at where short trail running is headed this year—then tell us what you’d race and why. If you’re into smart training, bold racing, and real talk on contracts and points, hit follow, share with a friend, and drop a review with your biggest takeaway.
Follow Rachel on IG ! - @rachrunsworld
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Opening And Season Kickoff
SPEAKER_01What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Substack, episode two, with co-host Rachel Tomaichak. Guys, we have a jam-packed episode for you with all of the latest short trail news. That's right, we break down the first sky race in the Sky Running World Skyrunner Series calendar, the Four Refugio Sky Race that took place back on February 22nd. We talk a lot about the Olympics. We get into the performances of friends Anna Gibson and Cam Smith, which was amazing to follow along at the Olympics. We also debrief the Black Canyon 50K, some conversations around that, as well as Jen Lickner's 100K course record, which was absolutely out of this world. We do a short preview, nothing too crazy, for the Andy Skyrace, which is another stop on the World Skyrunner Series calendar, which is going to be taking place this March the 7th. And then we get into the juicy stuff. We talk about free agency moves, lots of free agency stuff that didn't pop up on the free trail calendar, some stuff that we get into that's pretty interesting, you guys are going to want to hear about. We get into the uh points for the Golden Trail World Series that they just dropped and kind of debrief those. Rachel does an amazing job at explaining the point stacking between the Golden Trail series, the Skyrunner World Series, as well as the WRMA World Cup, how many races do you need to attend, how the point systems work. She breaks it all down for us, which is amazing. And then very last but not least, we get into championship teams. We talk about what races are going to be selecting for what races this year, who's going to be picking what, and uh how that's all gonna come out in the wash, which is kind of fun. Uh so there'll be a uh a U18 mountain running team or yeah, U18 Mountain Running team that's gonna be happening in Italy. We get into uh the races they're gonna be selecting for the WRMA final, which will be the uphill classic, um, which is gonna be in Quebec, and then the long distance final as well. So all good stuff there, which will take place in Poland. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Jam-packed with all the news, and then very, very last but not least, we do break down the breaking news of the Cirque series, dropping their two new races. Uh J Peak, which is gonna be taking place in Vermont at the end of September. I think it's September of the 28th, and then October the 3rd, which is going to be Baldy, which is one of the largest installments. If not, I think it's one of the long, it's it might be the second longest race that they've had. It's almost 4,000 feet of vertical and uh over nine miles. It's gonna be a beast. Looking very forward to both of these races. But yeah, break down both of those. We talk about the implications and what that means. The Cirque series just continues to get stronger uh and expand, which is great for our sport. Uh, truly, you can race coast to coast now on the mountain classics from early June all the way to October, which uh is kind of amazing. So without further ado, uh really appreciative of co-host Rachel Tomaichek, and uh she just brings an absolute wealth of knowledge. I hope you guys enjoy this one. The Substack Volume 2. Hooray, Rachel Temaichek. How's it going? Welcome, welcome back.
SPEAKER_02Hey, yeah, excited to be back. Yeah, it's going well. What about you?
SPEAKER_01I just living the dream. You know, it's uh I got sunburnt in February today on a run. I was like, wow, this is this is nuts.
SPEAKER_02I know. Yeah, it's been warm here in Colorado.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so warm, so warm. Um, well, good welcome back to the audience. This is the Substack episode two. Stoked to uh talk about all kinds of fun stuff. I feel like there's a there's a whole mess, a whole slew of uh topics to get to today, which I'm super excited for. Yeah. How about you? What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_02Totally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I know. I feel like when you texted me last week and said, like, hey, let's do an episode, I was kind of thinking, how much are we gonna have to talk about? And then I was thinking, wait, actually, a ton has happened, and it's really early in the season, but I feel like the season's kicked off now and we're rolling. So yeah, I'm excited to get to talk about everything.
SPEAKER_01I know, I can't believe it. We had the Black Canyon 50K. We've already had one Skyrace, we're in prep for another Sky Race. I feel like there's a ton of conversation around the free agency stuff too. Uh some new new point updates with the Golden Trail World Series. I think there's some good conversation too around the points for um the uh what is it, uh, the Skyrunner World Series. And then I'm gonna slip some stuff in here that no one knows about yet that I'm super excited for for two new Cirque Series places that we're supposed to be announced. Okay, let's go. Haven't been announced yet, but I'm gonna, I got the I got the breaking news, if you will. So yeah, there's lots of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Whoa, that's awesome. Yeah. That's pretty big. Yeah, let's do it.
Four Refugios Skyrace Recap
SPEAKER_01All right, sweet. So let's dive in. I think the first thing to talk about, uh, I guess we'll just go in order with as far as dates go, but the Four Refugio Sky Race that took place back on the 22nd. Uh, I was a little bit more tuned into the women's race. Like it was really fun to see Callie McChrystal just absolutely dominate that race.
SPEAKER_00Um smash it. Yeah, she crushed. Yeah. Any any big takeaways from it?
SPEAKER_01The course, uh, I know the course looked really gnarly. Um, the players involved, the athletes. What any any big takeaways on your own?
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, first of all, that race is like one of the first races where I've seen where athletes have to wear helmets for it. Um, I mean, I'm sure I think I've seen a couple other races where athletes are wearing helmets, but I think they had to wear helmets the entire race. So it was just a really gnarly course. Um, yeah, Kaylee's really, really, really good at all the technical stuff. She loves hiking from what I remember. So I think any really technical race like that that she gets on, she's gonna crush. Um, and she showed that class in this race. So that was really, really fun to see.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. As far as the helmets go, it's so funny you say that because I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, huh, they gotta wear that the whole time? That seems like a that seems like a like it's gonna get itchy in there and like kind of frustrating. Yeah, yeah. It's gotta be such a pain in the neck. Um totally.
SPEAKER_02I forget, I think it was around a five or six hour race, too. So it's not just like you have this helmet on for an hour, like you're spending a lot of time in a helmet.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy. It's crazy that like they uh, because you know, these athletes are at the top of their game in what they do, you know, and it's interesting that it's a required piece of equipment to wear a helmet. Um, and so I guess there's a lot of you know potential for rock fall and all kinds of crazy things to happen on these courses. Um, I thought the the backdrop was absolutely beautiful. Like, um yeah, it was cool too to see. I I think one of the most interesting things I I thought awesome was to give some representation to South American athletes. Like uh Jose Manuel uh Cuespe, Quispe, Quispe, Jose Manuel Quispe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Quispe, I think, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Peruvian athlete. He was seven overall in 2025, came out with a win, and then Gennaro. Umstosomo.
SPEAKER_02I think Hanaro Christo Cristosomo. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sorry guys if I butcher these answers. I'm doing my best.
SPEAKER_02No, no, you're good.
SPEAKER_01Um Argentina athlete, got second, and then we saw American Morgan Elliott uh holding it up for Team USA back uh getting in third place, which was pretty cool to see as well. So big shot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was really cool. And he's also really good at all the technical running. I mean, I feel like anyone that podiumed in this race is really good at techie running. But yeah, Morgan did really well in this race. Fun to see him on the podium. And then you're right, so many of the South uh American athletes did so well in this race. So really cool to see uh some Peruvian and Argentinian athletes just do really, really well in this one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, definitely. Um, and then on the women's side, like we talked about Kelly McChrystal, Canadian, um, did take the course record and was fifth overall, which I thought was a kind of lights out performance. That's amazing. Um, yeah, that was awesome. And then Tanya uh Loenhagen from Germany was about 30 minutes behind. So you could call this just straight up dominant performance. Um, and then Rosalie Zagara, another Peruvian athlete, was on the podium as well. So good representation from worldwide. It's cool to see athletes from all over the world going to compete at something like this this early in the season.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that was really, really fun. So starting off with a really strong race at the Skyrunner World Series. So um, that's fun. And I know there's another one coming up soon that we'll get to also.
SPEAKER_01Yep, the the Andes sky race. I think it's another super high altitude, like gnarly technical one. These sky races are fun to follow.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, they definitely are.
South American Standouts And Women’s CR
SPEAKER_01Wanna pivot a little bit and just go straight to straight to the Olympics? Like, I any thoughts on Anna and Cam and just like how cool was that? Like, I was in front of the television screaming at six o'clock in the morning. I think my neighbors were about to call the cops. So we were going. My wife and I were in the cops, like, oh my God, let's go. It was so much fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, same. That was so fun to watch. Both the sprint and the relay were really fun to watch, but I think their relay was just amazing. It was so cool, kind of just like seeing their story and knowing that Anna and Cam didn't even know. Well, Anna didn't know if she had made the team until I think she made it in November. And then they didn't even know if the US had a spot until December. Um, I think they went into the Olympics ranked seventh in as a team and then came out in fourth. So that was amazing just to see them race so well and um really show up and compete, which they're both really good at doing. So um, yeah, it was just really, really awesome to see.
SPEAKER_01It was. It was absolutely amazing. And the sprint was a great prelude to the mixed relay. I'd say the mixed relay was definitely the bread and butter and more, I think, more played to both Cam and Anna's skills. Um, interesting to follow. I mean, it was so close for the and I hope the uh the listeners to this episode were had a chance to follow along. And if not, you can probably go on YouTube and catch the whole the whole race. I mean, it was a very cathartic finish. Like there was one point in time where Anna had pretty much pulled the team into third place, and yeah, as soon as she passed it off to Cam, it was it was a straight up battle between fourth and third. Um, and it was it was really just a very close finish. And especially with the technical, I think it was on Team Spain that was I think it was a three-second technical that I've heard from a lot of people say could have been 30 seconds, and I know Team USA challenged it, but nothing came from it. But had it actually been that 30 seconds, uh Caminotto would have come home with a bronze medal. So it was so close.
SPEAKER_02And it was really, really close. Yeah, I think the whole time the announcers, I don't think we're sure if it was a three-second or 30-second penalty. So the whole time we were just like, are they DQ'd? Are they do they have a time penalty? What is the time penalty? So it was a really exciting race to watch. And I think Anna and Cam both fought really hard through the whole the whole race. So it was so fun.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. Yeah, I was, I mean, 6 30 in the morning and I'm texting people. Poor Kieran Day. Kieran Day is getting DMs because I know he's there like watching it at Western at the Incrested Butte. They had like a big like watch party, and I'm like, what does this mean? You know, schemo, like fill me in. So yeah, it was it was definitely uh definitely a lot of fun to uh to follow along. And yes, just like giant hats off, like our great American champions and friends too, which is kind of surreal to see like our friends uh like go and compete in the Olympics. Like that's kind of it's kind of weird, right? It's kind of it's neat. I don't know, it's different.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so cool, especially in the winter Olympics, too. Like I just wouldn't expect that. Maybe I should more now that I'm on trails, but I've seen so many just coming from the track background, you um get to see people making uh on the track or um in the marathon or something, and then uh you don't really expect it as much in winter Olympics.
Olympic Mixed Relay Thrills
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a what a thing to follow. And it and I think just uh just such a bright future for the Americans. Um you know, like uh Cam's alternate uh Griffin Briley, who didn't even get a chance to didn't get a chance to compete yet. That kid's the future. And then it's just like Cam's young, Anna's, I think, still in her 20s. So there's plenty of opportunity for this team to go get a medal and compete for years on end. So it's gonna be uh bright, very, very bright future for uh the American team in schema rank, which is cool.
SPEAKER_02True. And I wonder too if it'll change later in future years. We only brought Anna and Cam on the schemo team. I wonder if in future years they'll be able to bring more uh people to represent each country to the Olympics because it seems like they're pretty small fields um for the races, so that would be cool to see too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'd love to see the list there, like the uh actual numbers of folks that tuned in because I I mean I would I would argue that this was a massive success. And what I've heard as well is that there's there's some conversation around bringing in the vertical, which I don't know why they didn't have a vertical in the first place. Like I feel like that's must see TV or is like 20 people destroy it's like watching a VK, 20 people watching destroying themselves up a mountain. Um, and of course, like some of the best trailrunners in the world uh would have competed had it been you know the vertical, like Remy Bonnet, it would have been cool to have seen that. And that's probably Cam's best distance, which is crazy to think that like, and probably Anna as well. When you start to like think about it, both of them didn't even really compete at their best distance. So if there was a vertical involved, um, and maybe if there is a vertical down the line, that would be that would certainly change things.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be fun to see too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh all right, so let's shift gears a little bit and we'll uh hop into the black canyon 50k. I know it's a it's an it's technically an ultra distance, but I feel like so many athletes from the short trails like side of the business kind of jumped up to run this uh really fast and extremely fast 50k. Uh any any takeaways? What did what did you think? All I could say is like, wow, yeah, that was really fast.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, and I feel like Black Canyon is always really fast, both in the 100k and the 50k, but especially the 50k, and it's kind of a good distance, I think, for a lot of people or that are in sub ultra um sub ultras to do kind of it's early on in the year. You're not in the middle of big series yet, so you can kind of do a 50k like that and then still prepare for your main races of the season. Um, or if you're trying to go up and do more ultras, you can kind of pivot into that too. But um, yeah, I think it was really cool to see some of the times and just people racing in those races. They they all did really, really well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know what stuck out for me? I gotta say the women's race. Uh, I'm a a friend, a friend and a giant fan of Jane Moss's. And to see her come from behind and catch Liz O'Connor like with minutes on the clock and and pull off the dub was like must see TV. That was really cool to see. Um then Lindsay Allison as well to round out the podium. Like the women's 50k race, I think, was really exciting. Uh, probably I think out of all the races, um I'd say the women's races were were more exciting than the men's this year, pants down, both on the 100k and the 50k.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're both really great races. I think um the women weren't quite as close as the men in the 50k, I think, but still really fun to watch because there were some um changes in placement at the very, very end, which was fun. Um, but yeah, the women were still within 10 minutes of each other in that 50k, which is pretty incredible over that distance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What did you think of the men's field? Seth, I don't think that was too much of a surprise pulling off the win, very closely followed by Adam Peterman. And then I think the star that's in the making is Cade Michael.
SPEAKER_02Uh another Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. I think Cade. Oh yeah, yeah. I think he's just taking off now. And it's been cool seeing him the past couple years um kind of start rising up, but I think he's really, really gonna have a big year, and so he's definitely one to watch out for. But um, yeah, that race was really, really close. I think first and second were within two minutes of each other, and then Cade was just 30 seconds behind Adam. So um really close race there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It's I mean, on the men's side and the women's side, it is just kind of like I know I said this in the beginning, and I just keep it's hard to like reiterate just like how fast. Like these guys on the men's side are moving, at least for the first 20 miles, high five-minute pace, low six-minute pace. And that's you're out of the podium if you're running low six-minute pace. Like it's it's that, that like close to the wire. And on the women's side, too. I mean, I think Jane ran what 347 for the win, something in that range. So that's like a seven, seven twelve pace. So figure she was running mid to low six-minute pace for the first 15 miles anyway, which is crazy. So, yeah, it's yeah, it's a throw-down in the desert. This is definitely a race for the speedsters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it is such a fast race. Just you have that really nice downhill for I think the first 20 miles or so, and then it does start climbing and it gets a little bit more technical, but those trails are pretty smooth, and you just have to have speed if you're gonna go and compete there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you think you'll ever go back? I know you tried for the 100K.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like it didn't work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had no. I I loved I loved the training for it. I really did like it. Um, I had stomach issues. I was throwing up probably 15 miles in, and that had never happened to me in any of my long runs. So I think it kind of made me not like that distance just because I had a terrible experience the first race that I had. But I think maybe I need to get over it and just like try something like that again. But I do think it was kind of a blessing in disguise for me because I don't think that I was quite ready to move on from the sub-ultra distances yet. And so um I'm kind of glad that I had that experience because it showed me like, hey, you're you're still like not peaked in those short distance races. And um I think that all my training that I did for Black Canyon built a really good base for me for that whole season. And um, I was really strong through the whole season too in the subultra distances. So um I think it was a good base of training for me. Um, I think I am interested in doing something like that again, but I'm definitely enjoying the sub-ultras right now.
What A Vertical Would Change
SPEAKER_01No, I don't I don't blame you. Yeah, we're we're we're I mean, we're obviously uh a little partial to this short trail stuff here, but yeah, it's always interesting. It's always funny because like I'll see folks like dabble and like try to like for instance instance like Eli, right? Eli was a world beater uh on the short trail side, like had some some amazing performances, and then I feel like, oh man, like going to Black Canyon now twice and and trying to uh pull this off is like that's gotta be so stressful. So wishing Eli the best. Yeah. I kind of want to partially want to see if we can get him back to the short trails, see if he can come back and uh run Pike's Peak again or run some of the Golden Trail series races again. It would be fun to watch.
SPEAKER_02Totally. Yeah, but I think it's so fun to see too because I think um it just really shows some of the differences between sub-ultra athletes and then athletes that are really, really good at long distance races. Not that there can't be any crossover and a sub-ultra person can't be good at ultras, and ultra person can't be good at sub-ultras, but I think um it's just a lot different training, and they're both really, really impressive in their own ways. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Being a pro on the actually, this is a question I had for you. Um, and I don't want to catch you off guard with this one. I'm just so curious because you were pro on the roads. So, like Liz and then Molly, right? Or I'm sorry, Des and then Molly come over and race. Yeah, one race is the 50K, one race is the 100k. There was a lot of people that thought like Molly and Dez would maybe walk away with the wins here. I mean, I think it's really important and it shows that trail running in its own right is its own, it's a completely different sport and its own separate skill. Would would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think that um it's really cool seeing some athletes that are really, really amazing on the roads come over to the trails because I think that it brings some eyes from people that primarily watch road and track over to the trails and just, I don't know, makes trails a little bit more seen, which is really fun. And then also kind of shows people that trail runners aren't slow and that they are really, really great athletes too. And um, Molly is an amazing athlete, Des is an amazing athlete too. Um, but there are other great athletes in the trails as well. So I think that um it was really cool seeing Molly get that golden ticket and she did awesome, and I think that she has a really bright career ahead of her in the trails because this is one of her first trail races, but um it was also really, really cool to see Jen getting a new course record in the 100k and um yeah, see some of the other women uh shine as well.
SPEAKER_01Big time, big time. Yeah, Jen, it was so crazy to watch. Like that was a race between I can't believe she kept the gap between her and Ann Flower at like, I can't remember if it was like 70 or 90 seconds for like the last like 30 miles of the race. It was a mess how she held that and just would not relinquish it. The two amazing athletes. Like, I gotta hand it to both of them. That was really fun to follow.
Black Canyon 50K And 100K
SPEAKER_02Yeah, totally. Yeah, that was a really fun race. And um, yeah, I think the podium on the women's side was just amazing and uh really fun to see that very end of the race and Jen just kind of holding on to the lead. And um, I don't know if she knew how far ahead or how uh close second place was behind her, but um she did a great job just competing the whole way through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so crazy. I is yeah, it was I mean, I think I feel like it answers a lot of questions too. Like Jen coming up, I mean, she was, I feel like probably the most dominant female 50k runner, if not one of the most dominant female 50k runners on planet Earth, and then goes and you know moves up and shows that she can do this against a world class field and come away with a golden ticket. Which is amazing. And then, you know, Anne Flower too. I think, you know, representing Colorado Springs, like she shows she she's the real deal. And I think like one of the things too is that people might have had, I don't know, doubts because she goes and has a dominant um win at Leadville, right? Not a lot of people chasing her. She's running off the front, which is a very different feeling to run off the front in a race like that where there's nobody really challenging you. And then other races as well. She's always been very dominant. So where she gets to mix it up with other athletes of her similar caliber and still come out in a uh on a podium finish. I think that was answered a lot of questions and was a yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Uh yeah, what a what a race. What a what a couple few weeks, man. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02I know, yeah. Lots of stuff already going on in the trails.
SPEAKER_01All right, let's take it, let's take it back to uh sky running. We don't we I know we don't have much too much to talk about this because the start list has not been released yet. I did some digging and I I could not find it. Um this race is gonna be the Andy sky race on March 7th. Um 34k, uh 3,300 meters of vertical climbing and descent. So definitely pretty uh pretty brutal. I think the high point of the race is gonna be 5,400 meters. What does that convert to a feet? Yeah, like times three.
SPEAKER_02I think so, yeah, for all the distances and uh all that in feet and miles, if you are in the American audience. I think it's around 20 to 21 miles um for 34k. I might be wrong on that. I'm trying to do some quick math. Um, and then the vertical climb, I think, is around 11,000 feet um of climbing and descending. So that's so steep in just a 20 mile or 21 mile race. And then the high point, I think, is around 15, 16,000 feet, which is so high. Um, I think that the race starts around 10,000 feet. So just a really high altitude race from start to finish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Wow. It's gonna be absolutely yeah, super. I wonder if this is another one where you gotta wear a helmet, because this seems like it's gonna be uh just a long, brutal, grueling race. Five hours for the men, six hours for the women from last year, as far as some of the top finishers. That is a that's a long say out, dude. That's that's no joke.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, especially that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't think, oh yeah, yeah. I don't think that I've seen helmets on um some of the videos from last year. So I don't think that's required gear, but I know that they do have required gear. And last year it was a bit later in the year, which um their seasons are flipped from us. So it was closer to winter, and I think it was very, very, very cold on the start line. So hopefully now with it being a little bit earlier in the year, it's not quite as cold. Um, but we will see. It's up at 10,000 feet. So uh you never know.
SPEAKER_01I feel like, and this is this is terrible reporting on my end, but I feel like I remember them seeing wearing the puffy jackets above tree line, like way up in the in the mountains. And I'm like, man, if you're moving that slow with a puffy jacket, like even for the front runners of the race, like that's a that's a brutal day out. That does not sound like fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that's really tough.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow. So, all right, so the Andy Sky race, we'll have more on this on the next episode. We'll uh we'll kind of go into the winners. I would imagine, I mean, I don't know how true this is. I did talk to Callie McChrystal. She's slated to come on the podcast, but she said she was gonna be out there for a bit longer. I wonder if she might be on the start list racing. I know Morgan Elliott is still out there as well, so there might be a few um a few notable names from the Four Refugios kind of sticking around, maybe trying to get some points, seeing if they can uh hang around that, you know, hang around that general area um to uh yeah, get some preseason, well, get in in-season points before the season really heats up, and that way you can start getting your qualifications for the final, which was good. One person I didn't mention for four refugios that I was really interested to see uh was Erin Tan. Um big time athlete. Uh she tried her hand at the race, she was there. Um I hope she keeps trying because I would love to see her do more sky races. That was cool to see her kind of in the mix there, um, you know, trying a sky race. And I know she's been doing a ton of like Big Mountain FKT projects, so it's always hard to kind of weigh those out as far as the seasons go and figure out like how the training works for each one versus the other. But I would definitely like to see uh Erin mix it up more at these. So it'd be very cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that would be really fun. I know she does do a lot of FKT, so I don't know what her training is like between splitting up FKTs and racing. I feel like she does a lot more FKTs than racing, but it would be fun to see her in some races because she's done really, really well at some of the FKTs and um has been running really fast. So I think that she could be good in some of these sky races for sure.
SPEAKER_01For sure. Yeah. Now I definitely a lot of household names, and I just can't wait to uh see um just how the season heats up as we we go from here and we're we're only in February.
SPEAKER_02I know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So being still early in the year, uh the conversate one of the big conversations that I usually cover on the podcast, and I was waiting for this episode to have it, is to have the free agency talk. Um, I feel like this year was a big year in free agency, both good and bad for athletes. We saw a lot of athletes um that have been with their sponsors for a long time move on uh and are now free agents. We saw a lot of new signings. What stood out the most to you in free agency? I feel like it wasn't a great year for the short trail athletes, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like every year there's kind of just a lot of movement and uh everyone has different links of contracts and they start at different times. So I feel like every year you're kind of like, who's gonna be with who? Whose contract is up this year? Um, so it's kind of always jumbled. And I feel like um companies can be really, really slow too. So sometimes you don't even know until maybe the second quarter if someone's signed um or not. So um, yeah, I feel like it's hard in the trails just to really know who has signed with who. And um yeah, there can be some surprises later in the year too.
Roads To Trails: Skills And Speed
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, big time, big time. And I think that's a big thing is as performances pop up as well, some brands have extra budget and can make room for people. Um, yeah, it's it's so art, it's it's so weird. Like there's no like actual free agency period. It's like, yeah, sometimes it's Q2, people are making announcements, sometimes it's early in the year. Like we have two Arcterics athletes that we'll we'll talk about that haven't even made their announcements yet because it won't happen until the end of March, which is even though it's commonplace, it's so weird.
SPEAKER_02Um I know for me on the track and the roads, a lot of athletes, if they're coming out of college, they're signing in the spring, um, kind of toward the summer, because um, that's when NCAAs finish and they're kind of like released from their college program and things. So um, a lot of moves happen on the track and roads at that time. So I feel like companies just kind of have money and it's typical to sign somebody in the fourth quarter unless they're or like going into the first quarter, I guess, uh, if they're kind of established and not coming right out of college, but they also kind of just have money um and you never know what'll happen during the year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, I wonder if we'll get to like a I don't know. I don't really know because like cycling's weird too. Like they'll it's very much just a they don't really have a free agency period. It's just like as your contract comes up, you'll either stay with who you're with or you'll move on. And it's kind of all over the place where yeah, I'm I'm curious to see like the model will either move to or stick with or how that'll work as uh we continue to professionalize. It's a weird sport.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know I would love it to be a little bit more established because I think that some athletes um are still working on their contracts right now, and they thought that they would have it in the first quarter, and they're not getting paid right now. So um I think that's really, really tough for some athletes, and um, it would be awesome just to get a little bit more established and um kind of have a set time that people are signing around.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. There's so many things that need to change. I know there's like I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say that. What I was gonna say was I uh this is might be a hot take. I was having a conversation with uh a friend recently, actually on the podcast about this, and we were talking about just athlete pay and things like that. And one of the conversations that came up was just around um uh like uh NDAs and having that convo. Yeah. Getting rid of NDAs so there could be more conversation around those things. And I'm like, dude, I don't think NDAs are going anywhere, but who knows? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I know. I would love them to go away. Uh, but yeah, it's really hard because I think that every athlete has it in their contract right now. So it's really hard to tell a company, no, I don't want that in my contract because it's kind of just the standard for what running contracts are right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's interesting. All right, let's get into uh some of some of the names um that stood out, some of the big names. I would say some of the notable changes are Grayson Murphy uh leaving Saucony, uh Joseph Gray leaving Hoka. Um I'd say those are two of the big ones that kind of like really, really stood out as far as on the short trail side. Max King um leaving longtime sponsor Solomon and going to Calais Fuga? I think it's Calais Fuga is how you pronounce it. Chinese brand. They're like they started making shoes back in 2019. Interesting brand, very cool. They're starting I think they're starting to get into the American market now, which would be cool as we see some of their stuff. Have you ever like seen them like overseas, maybe like racing, like any other like Golden Trail or anything like that?
SPEAKER_02I don't remember seeing them, but um maybe I should have paid more attention. I'm sure that they're over there. Yeah. Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_01Uh who stuck out to you? Any any notable uh folks that as far as um I don't know, not just like notable folks, but any free agency moves that kind of like we're like, oh, this is really interesting, or uh, this is something that is noteworthy of conversation?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I think just because I've been on teams with them before, and I was hanging out with Grayson some last week. Grayson um and Joe are both really interesting. I know you mentioned them already, but um, yeah, I think that'll be interesting to see kind of where they go. And um, yeah, just yeah, see see what the next steps in their careers are. Yeah.
Andes Skyrace Preview
SPEAKER_01Yeah, both of them, I mean it's kind of interesting. Like they're both contract years for both of them, both two of the most influential figures our sport has ever seen. Um two of the goats, you know, and it's like yeah, it's weird for them to not have I know athletes are working on stuff, but it's weird for them to not have something announced yet. So hopefully something will be announced uh sooner rather than later, especially before the season goes. So it's gonna be uh fun to see what the next iteration of their careers look like. Um yeah, as as things uh move on. Um a lot of like free agents that I I wanted to bring up. So I like made a list. This is crazy. I was like looking at on the men's and women's side of just like notable free agents, um as far as our our just in the trails in general. Mikelino Censeri left longtime sponsor the North Face. Um they moved on from one another this year. So Mikelino is a free agent. Mason Copi and Tyler McKinless, who are two World's team members, free agents.
SPEAKER_02Uh Darren Yeah, I meant to mention Mason. I feel like someone needs to get him a contract because yeah, he has been crushing it. He did so well in the Cirque series the past couple years, made the world team, did incredibly at world. So um, yeah, I'm confused why he doesn't have a contract yet. But um he's like one of the most positive people ever, just like so awesome to be around, such a good team member to have around. Um, and yeah, I think if you're if anyone's out there listening that has contacts um or you're part of a brand and has money, Mason is amazing.
SPEAKER_01Go get yourself, Mason. And you like the thing is is like slam dunk. Like you will not be disappointed with that kid. He says he's so talented and like you said, just a good, he's a good human, he's a coach, um, everything you want in a teammate. I feel like Mason is. And uh yeah, very positive. And uh I like I know I'm a friend of Mason's. I uh I have introduced him to a lot of people, and I hope something works out. And let me tell you something, dude. It is criminal that that kid does not have a sponsor yet. That needs to happen.
SPEAKER_00Um that's true.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So Mason Copi, Darren Thomas is still unsigned, Andy Wacker is still unsigned, Brian Whitfield, Ryan Becker, David Hedges, Tyler McCannless, Nicholas Cherko, um, Cade Michael, Talon Hole, Alex King, Kieran Nay, and then we already talked about Joseph Gray. That's my list of like notable free agents on the men's side. And on the women's side, of course, we already mentioned Grayson, uh, Christina Mascarinas, Robin Vieira Brower, uh, two Colorado Springs girls, uh, Chrissy Lofgren and Jennifer Yeeman, Rena Schwartz, Mally Noise, Alexa Aragon, Andy Cornish, Oakley Olsen, and Taylor Tuttle. So there's a some lot of like so many free agents on the market right now that if you're a brand and you are interested in uh in getting some athletes, like, yo, these are these are the people. Come and come and get your people.
SPEAKER_02True. Yeah, yeah. An amazing list of names. So um, yeah, I think that there is really bright free futures for all of them. And um, yeah, I hope that they can get something. But um, yeah, if you're a brand out there, that's who to look at for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then two more uh notable signings that I didn't mention yet are, and I feel like these are probably some of the biggest ones, if not the biggest ones on Short Trail, um, this year as of yet, are gonna be Jane Moss leaving Losportiva to go to Arctarix and uh Kyle Richardson, who was previously with Black Diamond, uh heading over to Arctarix as well. So Arctarix is definitely uh making some notable signings. They now have two uh both the women uh Grand Teton record holders, which is kind of cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is cool, actually. Yeah. I think uh Jennifer Lichter also switched over to Nike. So um, yeah, that's another big, big change, I think. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Jen to go into uh uh ACG. And I've heard, I mean, I've heard amazing things so far about ACG in this uh free agency period and over the last two years. So it's uh it seems like it's a great thing with what they're doing with athletes, and hopefully other brands can kind of copy that pay structure and start to work in higher pay structures, and it'll kind of raise all ships for athletes across the board.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, totally. That'll be awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think that's all I have on free agency. Anything you have to add before we move on?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I think that covers a lot.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Cool. All right, let's talk. Uh this is your your uh your side of the business on the Golden Trail World series as far as the points update. Uh, I've heard it mentioned from people that say they need an abacus now to figure out their points situation. I was hoping that you might be able to talk about it.
SPEAKER_02I feel like this. Yeah, honestly, every single series, we're gonna talk about a few series, I think, of races and the points. And honestly, all of them are so confusing. So I think that it needs to be a little bit better or more organized with how they talk about these points. But um, hopefully we can get some bullet points and help some people out.
SPEAKER_01Definitely, definitely. All right, so yeah, I'll let you break it down as far as how this works for how many races are counted, what you need for the regular season, what you need for the final, how many races do I even really need to go to if I'm an American trying to get to the Golden Trail World Series final? How do I do this?
Free Agency: Major Moves And Gaps
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so for Golden Trail World Series, there are seven regular season races and then the final, which this year it's only a final. In years past, they've had a prologue and a final, or sometimes they've had kind of a stage race, but this time it's just one race as a final. So seven regular season races, one final, you have to, or I guess you don't have to go to four races, but your four best races will be counted. So if you want your best shot at the most amount of points that you can get, you need to score at four races out of the seven regular season races. The regular season races, um, the highest amount of points that you can get, the first place winner gets 200 points. And at the final, it's 300 points for the winner. So um the final is weighed a little bit heavier, um, but the regular season points still count for sure. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01And I feel like this year, I think you had mentioned this in pre-a previous episode or previous conversation. It used to be only three races were counted, right? Now it's four.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It's a big change for Golden Trail series. They have tried to do this before a couple years ago. Um, they tried to do four races. Also, one of the races got canceled mid-race because there was a huge thunderstorm. So because that happened, they brought it back down to three races that counted. So they actually they've tried to do this before, but this will be the first season where it actually happens, if it does happen, that there are four races counted instead of three. So I think we'll see what happens. I think that's going to make it really, really hard for American athletes to complete the whole series. Um, in my opinion, I think the races are just kind of all around the world except for in the US. And it's really, really hard to get to some of the races. So I think getting to four of those races, I mean, you're spending thousands of dollars going out of country and internationally for races. So um, I know that's pretty hard and it's hard on your body as well. So really you have to go to five international races because you need to complete the final two. Um, so I think that makes it really hard for some of the US athletes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be really interesting to see who sticks around and actually goes to the final this year. Is it is this gonna be a year where some of the biggest names say, well, you know, I really want to do series and all. I'll I want to do Zagama. I'm just gonna go to a few of the big ones that are on the on the highlight, the series, and maybe skip the final this year and then just try to go do it next year, you know, depending on obviously contracts are structured certain ways, but um yeah, I I I often wonder if like maybe there's just other incentives and better incentives to do things in the United States at this point, or at least like somewhat local and not having to travel all over. Although I've had many people reach out to me and say, like, South Korea is amazing. Like if you want to go to a final, like that's the place to go, and it's supposed to be super fun.
SPEAKER_02So that's totally so and I think that maybe um we could even see not the opposite of what you said, but where people are only going to the final because I think the final is in some people's contracts, and um, so maybe they just do the final and they don't do any of the regular season races, and they might not get the points for the series, but they're at the final and they can get some money from scoring high in the final just because of their contracts.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. I like it. I mean, I think it's it's I don't know. I don't think it's crazy complicated. I think it's uh definitely, in my opinion, a little less complicated than skyriding. Like I didn't realize like skyrugging races this year. Like, whoa, yeah, that's crazy. I mean, I feel like 18 races is even less than what they've had before. So it definitely changes things a little bit. Um, but yeah, do you do you under I I'll be honest, like I didn't read too much into the red and white races and how they oh yeah. Explain that like as far as for the sky running and how that works.
SPEAKER_02I can. Yes. Before we move on from Golden Trail series, one thing that I needed or forgot to mention is there's segment points this year too. So um during the races, there are different segments, maybe an uphill segment, a flat segment, a downhill segment, and each of the segments you can score points at too. So I think first through fifth place on the segments you can score points for um it's not a ton of points, it's definitely not as many points as you would get from winning a race, but um, that could potentially weigh in. We'll see. Um we talked about that on the first episode. I don't know if it'll make that big of a difference, um, but it'll be interesting to see that this year too.
SPEAKER_01Do you think a lot of teams will get behind like this team ranking? Like, will that have a lot of uh, yeah, like will there be a lot of like uh everybody saying, well, my team's better than yours kind of thing, or we beat you, or like is there like, do you think people will get behind that? Or is it just Yeah?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I think it's similar to the segment points where it's so new that I'm like, I don't know, we'll see how it plays out this year. I think it's interesting. I think both the segments and the team raking make the series more fun to watch because you have a team that you're rooting for, or um like it's fun to see who's really good at uphill segments versus downhill segments. So I think they add a little bit more fun to the series, but I don't know how much of a difference it's going to make. Um, because I think they could have done team rakings in other years as well, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I mean, I can't wait to see it because like I don't know, there's and there's some teams that are like really stacked. Like Brooks, for instance, brings a huge force of athletes. Like there's Daniel Pattis, uh, you know, you'll have Taylor Stack, Dan Kurt. There's just a lot of people versus like Hoka does not have a huge team, like not a lot, like there's less and less athletes floating around as far as teams go. Terex only has a few, so it's gonna be very interesting to kind of see um, you know, and and maybe fresh new faces as well. Who comes in is completely new. So yeah, totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Will be interesting.
SPEAKER_01Let's uh I gotta hear I'm so curious to hear the sky running situation because it's I'm like confused with the there's red weight races, there's white races, there's 18 races. Skyrunning, what are we doing here, guys?
Brand Strategies And Athlete Pay
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. If you were confused with Golden Trail series, get ready um for Skyrunner World Series. There are 18 races in the Skyrunner World Series, which is uh an insane amount of races. Um, but it is cool because they're really all over the world. So I feel like whatever continent you live in, you could get to some pretty easily. Um, it's still four out of your 18 races are counted. So similarly to the Golden Trail World Series, you need to get them four races to have um kind of the ultimate amount of points, um the most that you can. Um different than the Golden Trail World Series is they have red races and white races. Um the red races, um this is a new thing this year too, but the red races are um weighted a little bit heavier, so they count for 1.5 times the points that the white races are um counted for. And so for your points, you could either do two red races and two white races, or one red race and three white races. Um the most amount of points or the most amount of red races that you can do is two, um, but you can only do one also if you want to. Um but the most amount of points to maximize your points, you would want to do two red races and two white races. And I think that they're doing that just because they want a little bit more competition at some of the races. Like if you spread out all the athletes into 18 races through the season, um, each race kind of gets watered down. Whereas like with Golden Trail World Series, there's only seven races. So um there's not as much of an opportunity to choose which race you want to go to, and all the athletes are kind of at a lot of the races or most of the races. So I think that this is just kind of trying to narrow down the competition a little bit and make some of these races really, really, really competitive during the year. So I think that's why they're doing that. Um, I think it would almost be more interesting to cut down the amount of races from 18 to 10 or 12 or something like that, and then um kind of make it more like Golden Trail World Series where there are less races and the competition is a little a little more stacked at each race. But um, yeah, it's it is fun to have races all around the world as well.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting too. Yeah, I it's it's it's yeah, I think you're right as far as maybe cutting it down and keeping it to like I don't know, more of a historical, like keeping with historical races. Like it was really cool, uh Traverna Kima, which is like a super historical race. It only happens every other year, um, jumping on the series, and it's always on the series, I guess. Well, this year will be a like last year wasn't on the sure it will be. Like uh that Tropho Kima, Trophokema, excuse me. Um, like that's a great race. That's a historic race. Uh like the Dolme Sky Race, which used to be on the Golden Trail World series and now is not on any series, like that would be a great one. Like I don't know, I feel like they having maybe one in South America or two, but having like eight, sixteen, that is a lot to keep track of. You're right. I think it it it does dilute the because it's easier for a professional athlete to be able to go to a race where there's only going to be three people to compete with for prize money or for a podium, right? Instead of a golden trail race where it's gonna be stacked head, you know, for the top 20, 30 people. So I I think from a talent dilution perspective, I think this is better to kind of keep people in and keep, you know, don't spread everything apart. But that said, I think just less races would be easier, but uh to each their own. I think it's cool to also have options, which is great as well. So and as the sport as the sport grows and more talent enters the sport, having more races is probably a better thing. So there's it's it's good and bad.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, that is true. And I do think as athletes are kind of planning what their year is like, golden trail series races aren't starting until April or May, um, most years. And these races, the Skyrunner World Series races, are starting in February, and um the series goes all the way to November. So it's a bit longer of a season if you're starting early on in the season, like some of the athletes did um last weekend. So I think that yeah, it's just a longer season, more opportunities to race. You can kind of spread out your year in the Skyrunner World Series, and you can do those four races and the final and then still have room for some other races like a UTMB qualifier, or if you have um your national championships or worlds or something. Whereas with Golden Trail World Series, it starts so late, really, in uh April or May, um, that you only have April to May through October to get in all of those races. So it's just a little bit harder to fit in other races other than the Golden Trail World Series races into your schedule if you are focused on that series.
SPEAKER_01Very true. It's interesting. And it's so much, it's crazy how much we have to choose from now. Like now we even have we have the World Cup as well, the WRMA, which is a whole other slew of things. I was thinking about this the other day, not to completely change subjects, but like the WRMA is also like a like a governing body in its own right, too. I'm like, why don't we just make that our governing body and they can like we can get funding for them to do anti-doping, and then we can take this thing to the Olympics? Like, why don't like I don't know, I was thinking of the other day because we have Schemo is now in the Olympics, they have their own ISF situation with their governing body, and I'm just like, like, why do we have such a governing body problem in trail running? I don't really understand that.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. Well, and all the World Cup races are under um the WRMA, but I think that's under uh IAF, like all of the world athletics and all of that. And so um I think that is kind of what started the governing body. That's the governing body that does worlds and all of that. So the World Cup races really do have the best drug testing and all of that. Um, but they also have the least amount of prize money too. So um the prize money is solo compared to some of those other series. So I think that they have great drug testing, but uh the prize money and the incentive for athletes to go isn't quite as high.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting. So it's a give and take, right? It's like, do you, you know, like I don't know. And and that begs the question then, will Golden Trail eventually like be a gold, you know, could they be a governing body at some point in time? Because they kind of offer both, or will it be something different? Will will they just create one from scratch? Um yeah, I don't know. We I feel like we could do a whole podcast on the on the governing body situation, but uh, I think it's yeah, it's an interesting topic. But the as far as the WRMA goes and the World Cup races, they I feel like you have to go to a lot of those races in order to be counted for their final. I think it's like 10 of 16 or something like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I think this year it is 10 out of 16, which um also is really difficult to do. Um, some of the races that they have, they have two races on the same weekend, so that does make it nice, like broken arrow. They have the uphill and then the long course as well, and both races can count. So you can kind of go to broken arrow and get into races, and that counts for uh your top 10 races. But I feel like with World Cup, it's almost just like if you can do 10 races, then you're going to be ranked pretty high because not many athletes are doing 10 races. Um, so it's kind of like a numbers game almost of how many races you can get in. And if you're finishing pretty high up in those races and you do all 10, then you're in a really good spot with the World Cup.
Golden Trail Series Points Explained
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know what I was thinking about too? I found this to be very interesting. And I I can't quite find the right word for it. I was thinking about clicky, but like I don't think that's not the right word. What I was getting at was like the W there's WRMA athletes that like particularly just kind of focus on the World Cup like races, right? Like you're Scout Atkins of the world. You don't see Scott Atkin a lot at Golden Trail series or at other races, but shows up the worlds and is like a world dominator. And same with um like Tovey Alexanderson and a lot of like athletes that seem to do really good at worlds, but you don't see them on uh they're not like giant names on like the on the golden trail stage or the world skyrunner stage. So I just I just find that very interesting that like we have these silos of athletes across different like categories, if you will, of the sport. Um like Joe Gray, for instance, right? He's another guy that like maybe every now and then we'll do a golden trail world series race like Pikes when it was a Pike's Peak, but doesn't seek those out. It does other like uphill races, like more World Cup stuff. Um so every our sport like gets siloed in funny ways. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02It's uh it's kind of weird, but no, I've definitely definitely thought about that too. And I think um some of the problem, or maybe not even problem, but just what makes it different from track and roads is track and roads kind of got established, and I feel like the governing body was kind of like established along with it, and everyone just kind of like went with it. And I feel like with trail running, so many different races started popping up, and people were kind of just like, let's do our own thing over here, and let's do our own thing over here, and now it's just like you have so many different series to choose from. Um, you could do Skyrunner World Series, uh, you could do Golden Trail World Series, World Cup, UTMB stuff. And it is weird, a lot of athletes don't have crossover between the different races or different series. And I think it's interesting. I would love to see more of a governing body and maybe um some more, I don't know, just making the races even more competitive because everyone's going to certain races. But um at the same time, it is fun to have a lot of different races to choose from too. So um, I don't know, there's positives and negatives on both sides.
SPEAKER_01Options. Options, yeah. That's true. Um, all right. Do we have anything we want to add for World Cup? I mean, I feel like as far as the categories go, it's the same thing as worlds, uphill, long, classic, or sorry, uphill, long, uh, and then the classic up down, which is your, you know, your mountain classic, if you will. Um yeah, I don't think there's anything more to add to that unless you have anything for the WRMA stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the only thing to mention with that is that the final is weighted a little bit heavier than the other races, um, which most finals are in these series. Um, but there's a five-point bonus at the final. And I think the final has an uphill race and then uh a long race as well. I may be wrong on that, but I think it's uphill and long um that they do there.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's gonna be, if I'm not if I I think it's the one that's in, yeah, the the finals in Canada, Quebec. Uh this year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, in Quebec. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't even want to begin to pronounce the name of that race. It's so like Defy declore, as I call it, but it's not that's terrible. I feel bad if Julian's listening to this. I'm so sorry, dude. I totally butchered the pronunciation of people. Uh but it's a great race. Oh, yeah. I was gonna say that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that'll be a fun, a fun one for sure. And I don't know if they've had it in Canada or like in the North America, uh, North America's before. Um, because yeah, I think they've normally had it in Europe, so that'll be fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Canada's killing us this year. I mean, they got the WRMA final and they got a Golden Scholarship series race with uh true. US is slacking, guys. What are we doing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, both in Quebec, I think, too. So that's cool.
SPEAKER_01It is cool. I think it's a great showcase of a place that I feel like not as many endurance athletes get a chance to go to, but yet a lot of athletes live and train there. I think like Matthew Binchard Blanchard is from there, Remy LaRue is from there, like it's and it's just over the border, it's easy to get to. So yeah, I think it's uh if you're if folks are looking to race international, I feel like it's a great intro international race because it's it's like America-like kind of you get to just kind of go over the border and go race up there. It's not too far.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And if you're on the East Coast, I think those trails are similar to the trails that you're training on too. So um, that is cool that you can kind of train pretty specifically for some of those races if you live out on the East Coast.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Uh, on the topic of East Coast, I've got, I guess, so registration's live, but they haven't made the official announcement yet. This will go out, but I don't think anybody's gonna ding me if I if I call it out. Um, so there are gonna be two new Cirque Series races this year. Uh, one is gonna be Cirque Series J Peak, which will be the third one on the East Coast. So there's already Canon and Killington. J Peak will be the third edition, which is actually surprisingly close to Quebec as well. So, and it's gonna be within that timeframe. It's like September 28th. So if athletes are looking for a tune-up, happen to be in that area uh before uh the WRMA final, that's a great segue to kind of do a double, you know, go race uh Cirque Series J Peak. I think it's like six miles and like 3,000 feet or something like that. Um, another great course. And then I think one of the biggest races Cirque Series ever has ever announced, which I'm really excited for as well, is gonna be Cirque Series Baldy, um, which is gonna be taking place in Southern California and LA. That's like it's like a nine-mile course with like 4,000 feet again or just south of 4,000 feet. Uh, you get to go over Mount Baldi in Southern California. And so it makes the course, it makes it, I think it it's crazy because it makes the Cirque Series now truly an east to west coast thing. Like it's uh there's races now all over the place. I think it's 10 races across the series. I Julian came on the podcast the other day to do the uh official announcement, which we haven't dropped yet. But basically the um the concept is they're still trying to figure out how they're gonna do points, so you don't have to do all of them, how many will count for as far as a uh your ranking, if you will, and then they're gonna start kind of figuring uh kind of that framework out. So they're working on that, but it's pretty cool. Two new two new circ series cases, which is great.
Skyrunner Red Vs White Races
SPEAKER_02That's awesome, that's super exciting. Uh yeah, yeah, big news.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to go do that Baldy one. I'm pretty pumped on that. It should be fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, are you gonna race there?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I talk, I think it's uh so JP's gonna be September 28th. It's kind of close to like all the stuff I gotta do for Pikes Peak. So probably what I'm gonna do is just do Baldy, and that'll be October 3rd. So it's great because there's like nothing on the calendar around then. So I think that could be a potential like late season, not much going on, and you could hop into that race and it'll probably be super competitive. And it's you know what's another thing too? I was looking on the map already. It's super easy to fly into, it's like 20 minutes from the airport if you fly into Ontario. Bada bing, bada boom, 25 minutes, you're up the mountain, you can race, and you can go right home. It's like not that, not that big of a super popular one. And I've always wanted to go, I've never been to LA, so it might be something to do. So cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah, should be a good one.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then last but not least, I do want to talk about the US championship teams. I know we had that kind of highlighted to talk about. Um, I'll let you take that away as far as what are the qualifying races and from the qualifying races, who do we take and where do they go?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they are taking four men and four women to the World Cup long distance final um in Poland and four men and four women to the World Cup uphill classic final in uh Quebec. So um I believe that Sunopee is going to be the qualifying race for that one. Um, so yeah, that's that's exciting. And then there's also a junior team with four men and four women for under 18 mountain running for the mountain running cup in Italy. And I believe that they have done uh just there's not a qualifying race and they've just submitted uh resumes for that in the past, but I may be wrong on that. Do you know if they're doing a qualifying race this year?
SPEAKER_01So usually they're resume based, but it depends. Um my guess is that if they don't have like, for instance, for the U18 stuff, generally it'll be resume, but if they have, for instance, like a collegiate national champion, maybe they'll throw like a um they'll throw an invite to one of those or both of those. Um, they could select from that. I don't know what the strong criteria is for USATF for that specifically, because they they kind of go it's it's never like set in stone, if you will. It's like trying to pick a picking an alternate, right? It's like kind of a totally USATF. So we shall see as far as that goes. But I know for a fact the uphill and classic final for the for the athletes going there will be selected from Sunopee. I don't know for the long distance final though, if they'll be selected from Sunope or what if that'll be application-based or if that'll select from somewhere.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're it's probably not Sunope, I would guess. Um I need to go on their website. I I'm sure that they have that listed out. But um yeah, it could be. That's what they've done in the past, I think, is the 46k at Broken Arrow. Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's kinda off years are so weird because it's like uh we don't have worlds this year. It's good and bad, but it's also like, okay, like, you know, it's cool that we have something like I was really in the I'd love Tom Hooper. He's a friend of mine, and I'm glad Sonopee is having the US championships again. But it was really cool. You raced it at uh 2024 at Snowbird when we had one in the Mountain West.
SPEAKER_02So kind of hope one of these years we'll get one back in the Mountain West for a US Mountain Running Champs, which would be sweet, but who knows totally that would be fun, and it may not if it is broken arrow, it would probably be the 23k instead of um 46k, because I think the long distance for a World Cup is 21.4k. So it's probably I don't think it's a long, long distance, it's kind of like a shorter distance, but they call it long distance. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's funny we have names like all these like names for big. Let me ask you this, and I I guess I don't know. Is the long trail race for the WRMA? I know the the the vertical is gonna be the broken arrow ascent, that's the US one. Is the long trail version the 46k or the 23k? I'm not really sure.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's the 23K, yeah, for the long final, yeah, which is funny because the 46k was the US qualifier for the short trail at worlds. Um, so very confusing. But for the World Cup, the long distance isn't very long because all of those races are really short races and kind of just more like classic mountain distance and uphill race, or the longer ones are 20k or so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, we have named we have so many like weird designations for stuff. I was laughing about the sky stuff the other day because they have like their certain certified courses and stuff, and like if it's something that's not like the exact like gradage or the certain like X amount and like the the the kilometer that they need, it's like doesn't count as a proper like vertical race. So everybody's got their thing, you know. It's uh yeah, true. It's it's uh it's a strange sport.
SPEAKER_02It is, it's funny, yeah.
WRMA World Cup Structure
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, Rachel, we're at about an hour now. This is great. I didn't think we were gonna fill up all this, like fill up an hour with all this stuff, but like this was a great conversation. I think this was an amazing second edition to our show. Um, I think there's a lot of value here for the athletes to uh to peel through and listen to, and I really appreciate it and thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me on. And um, yeah, I'm excited for our next chat when we can talk some more races that have happened and um, yeah, keep rolling with the season.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, lots to lots to discuss. Thank you so much.
