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The Steep Stuff Podcast
The Sub Stack Short Trail News - Episode 3
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Big Alta didn’t just crown winners, it showed how quickly short trail racing in the U.S. is leveling up. Rachel & James break down a heat-impacted weekend where the 28K delivered a course record and the 50K produced tight battles that came down to execution. Rachel shares what the Big Alta course feels like at speed, why the exposure changes everything late, and how she approached racing while pregnant, chasing smart goals and still competing hard.
From there, we go global with skyrunning and the World Skyrunner Series, starting with the Trans Gran Canaria Marathon and then jumping to Rachel’s trip to Chile for the Andes Mountain Sky Race. We talk real logistics and real terrain: travel delays, mandatory kit, high-altitude starts around 9,000 feet, and a mountain environment that turns “only 35K” into an all-day effort. We also dig into why South American athletes deserve more spotlight and how these races reveal a different skill set than fast, smooth trail formats.
We wrap with a packed preview of Calamoro and the Gorge Waterfalls 30K and 50K start lists, then pivot to trail running sponsorship moves that made waves. Salomon’s additions of Grayson Murphy and Tove Alexandersson, plus Arc’teryx signing Jane Maus and Kyle Richardson, spark a broader conversation about what brands value and how the sport treats athletes through life changes. Finally, we get into Sierre-Zinal separating men’s and women’s starts and why that small shift could dramatically improve fairness and flow on singletrack.
If you like smart race recaps, skyrunning results, and the behind-the-scenes forces shaping trail running, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review.
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Welcome And What’s Ahead
SPEAKER_01What's going on, guys? Welcome back to the Substack. Episode three with co-host Rachel Temaichak. I'm your host, James Lariello, and uh we get into a whole bunch of fun stuff in this episode. First and foremost, we break down the most recent results from the big Alta 50K and 28K. We also get into the results of the Transgrand Canaria Marathon, the Andes Mountain Sky Race, as well as the Ankiladillas Norte Sky Race, uh, which took place just a few weeks back. We also do a short preview episode for the Kalamoro Sky Race as well as the Gorge Waterfalls 30K and 50K, which are absolutely stacked, chock full of amazing athletes. Um not least, we also get into some of the latest free agency moves. We talk about uh Grayson Murphy and Tovey Alexanderson signing with Solomon, Jane Moss and Kyle Richardson signing with Arcterics. We give some grades on what we think of those signings and uh just some of the slam dunks uh that these uh brands have been making recently. And then very, very last but not least, we also get into uh just some other topics and news. Um we jump into series and all separating the men's and women's field. We get Rachel's take on that and uh a few other things. So great episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Without further ado, Substack Episode Three with Rachel Tomaichek. All right, Rachel Temaichek. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast for the Substack Episode 3. How's it how's it going?
SPEAKER_00Thanks. Yeah, I'm excited to be here, excited to talk about everything that's happened in this last month because a lot has happened. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01You've been all over the world, like literally, like you've been all over the world, like going to some of these races, doing a lot of these things. So this is super exciting to kind of get into some of these race results. I feel like Short Trail is uh both proverbially in the news and um from a race results perspective, kind of taking off. We're seeing a lot of like really cool results, a lot of races, like the World Skyrunner series is uh really kind of kicking off. And uh yeah, it's been kind of fun to follow so so far.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're just at the start of the sub-Ultra Trail season, so lots more to cover, but yeah, this is a fun start for sure.
Big Alta 28K Race Debrief
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Did you uh so you're just getting back from kind of like deep debriefing from Big Alta where you raced the 28th? Yeah. All right, I feel like to kick our episode off, maybe maybe give a little. I mean, you were in the top 10, had a great race for yourself. I heard apparently it was like a crazy hot day. Maybe give a little uh race debrief and and how you uh how you do it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It was a really fun race. It was a hot day, not as hot as the 100K and 50k because those days were really, really warm. Um, but yeah, it was great. My goal um just being pregnant this year was to get in the top 10. Um, I feel like that was a solid goal for myself. So um I was really happy with seventh and just trying to like stay around some of the women. Um, I was going back and forth with some of them through the race. And so that was really fun just to have some people around. And um, we went off at the same time as the guys, too. So battling back and forth between some of the guy groups. Um for me, uh I am definitely getting heavier now, and the uphills are a lot harder, but I feel like the downhills I can still move well on. So I feel like I was losing a bunch of places on the downhills. I mean, on the uphills, and then the downhills I would catch up with people. So I was going back and forth um a ton during the race, but it was a really fun race. Um, those trails are super, super fast. They're also super exposed. So it was a really warm day out there. So you definitely, definitely felt the heat, um, especially in that last hour of the race when you were up on the ridgeline and there's just no shade or tree cover or anything like that. But it was a really fun race. I think that race is one that's getting a lot more competitive. And um, it was cool that they added in the 100k this year because I think it just brought a lot of the trail running world together where you have ultra runners there and you have some of the shorter trail athletes and sub-ultra athletes there too. So yeah, really fun, fun race, fun vibes.
SPEAKER_01So cool. Yeah. What did you talk about like the area and like the like what maybe the the vibe? Because like I've been to Gorge Waterfalls before, and I think like this was like very early on in the free trail, Dylan having the race, and I felt like they did an amazing job. They like great community atmosphere, great community race. So I can only imagine that Big Alta is probably just that expanded even further.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah. And I haven't ever been um to Gorge Waterfalls, but um that was definitely kind of the vibe at Big Alta that it was just a really fun trail community event. Um, I think Dylan did a great job of just bringing everyone together and like hyping up all of the races too. It wasn't focused on the 100K, it wasn't focused on the 50k or the 28k. They all were able to shine on their own. And um, so I think they did a really great job of that, especially they had each race on their own separate day. And so that was really cool just being able to be out there and you could really watch the 50k if you wanted to, or the 100k. Um, I was out there crewing some of my mural teammates for the 50k and then um got to race the 28k too. So you could be there and you could really experience a lot of the races while you were there, which was really fun.
SPEAKER_01So cool. Uh how Dylan has a voice after all this, like after three. Oh my gosh. I don't even know. Like I do like one day of Pike's Peak, and I'm completely like losing my voice. I can't imagine doing three days of announcing everybody's names and be like completely uh yeah, I don't know how he does it. Impressive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm being excited for everyone to like I feel like it's one thing to just announce someone's name, but it's another thing to announce someone's name with like the enthusiasm that he does. So um, yeah, he did a great job of just making everybody feel like they crushed it and um had a great race and uh really wanted to bring that experience to everyone out there.
SPEAKER_01Talk about the course a little bit. I know for the 28K, obviously 28k, what is that? Like it's a 14, 15 miles, something like that.
SPEAKER_00Maybe like it was like 17 and a half. 17 and a half, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So 4,000 feet. What did you think of the course? I know you said there was like a lot of exposure there, but it's a lot of up and down. It's what it seems like, it's a lot of dirt roads and things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you basically have one, like most of the first six miles is a climb. Um, sometimes it's broken up with some short downhills, but it's mostly a climb up until mile five or six. Um, and the climbs aren't like super steep. It's kind of like 300, 400 feet per um mile in the climb, and then some downhills too. And the climbs are on pretty wide, they're almost like fire roads. There's no cars that are going up and down it, um, but they're really, really wide, not even double track, like bigger than double track um for most of it. Some you get into some single track, but a lot of it is just these really, really wide trails. So um you're really able to move around people if you need to and uh kind of run your own race, which is nice. So that's kind of the first six miles. Then you have a downhill until the first aid station that's about eight and a half miles in. Um, and that's a really fast downhill again on more fire road y trails than single tracks. Um, so you can really rip those miles. Those are probably the fastest miles in the race. Um, I think I like ran sub-six on one of those miles because it's just really fast. Um, then you hit the aid station, eight and a half miles in, and you start climbing again, again, not really steep climbs, just like three to four hundred feet per mile. Um, so really, really runnable. And that is more on single track. And then you get to the ridgeline. Um, and that's where the really steep parts are. I think on the ridgeline, you're kind of just going up and down on really steep, punchy hills, but they're not really long. They're maybe like 0.1 or 0.2 miles long, but pretty steep in ups and downs. And then the last couple miles is a pretty um sharp downhill into the finish line. So um, really fast course, really runnable course. If you look at the times that people ran in really any of the race, they are fast times for those distances, especially with that amount of vert. And you're at sea level two, which is nice. So um, if we had a cooler day, then I think it would have been even faster. But Taylor still broke the course record. So people were moving out there for sure.
Big Alta Podiums And 50K Drama
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's talk about that. I think it's probably the first results I want to get into is uh kind of a debrief of the women's 28k, because that was, you know, women's course record goes down and goes down by like a fairly decent little margin. Taylor Tuttle is gonna be a name everybody's gonna know in the sport pretty soon. Oh, yeah. Um total beast. And then she was in the top 10 overall, too, after breaking the course, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think she was seventh overall, which is wild. Um, she beat a lot of the men for sure.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, crusher. And then Rena Schwartz in second. Um we've had Rena on the podcast before. She's an up-and-coming crusher. I don't know if she splits. I know she splits time. I know sometimes she's in the Northeast, finishing school, sometimes she's in Boulder. Um that's another name to look out for. We had her at Pike's Peak last year, and then Alice Goodall in third. Yeah, the women's race was was, I think, more a little more interesting than the men's race, just because we got a new course record, and uh it was a good contingency. Like it seemed like there was a lot of big names, a lot of like really strong competitors there this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. Yeah, like I was saying, I think that Big Alta is really kind of starting to become even more of an elite race than it has been in the past, and it's drawing more of the pro field to it. And so that's been cool. But yeah, those women really crushed it, tailored with the course record on a hot day. Um, and yeah, all the top three just are incredible women. And I feel like there's still kind of names that are up and coming. Um, so maybe if people see them on a start list, they wouldn't know who they were. But I feel like me going into the race and just like they're all from Boulder and are training in Boulder, and I just knew like these are like the three women they're really gonna crush this race. And I thought like Taylor was in really great shape and had a shot at the course record. So um, I feel like if people didn't know them before this, they'll probably know them now because um yeah, that that was just such a big outstanding performance from all three.
SPEAKER_01For sure, for sure. And on the men's side, we had a new uh Aries Redding, uh new guy. He's another another boulder guy.
SPEAKER_00Uh another boulder, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Pretty close. I mean, within relative distance. I mean, he obviously won the race, but not too far away from Andy Racker Racker's course record. He ran the second fastest time in 1512, and then just behind him was uh fan favorite Joe and De Leon. Did you get a chance to talk to Joe and at all? That's like one of my favorite humans. No, I didn't one of my favorite humans in the world. Like that's awesome, yeah. Such an interesting guy. Um he's in the uh not Roaringford Valley, Gunnison Valley, um up in Crested Butte. And then Marcel Hosch in third, I believe that's a Terex athlete, if I remember correctly, but um not an American. It's it's interesting. I'm glad we're seeing if you're getting international talent coming out now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think maybe German, is that right? Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01Very cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_01Uh and then and then the 50K, um 50K race, another big lots of standout names. Very interesting lineup. Um, David Norris took the overall win 343 in the 50K. Um, and for folks that don't know the the kind of the layout of the 50k, that's 6,700 feet of climbing. So it's basically your loop for the 28k, and then a kind of another loop on it or something like that. I forget.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they they did our climb, um, the first climb, and then they went off into this uh side loop kind of and went down and up again in that loop, and then went down into the aid station that we had, and then did the same climb out of that aid station, then had another little loop um similar to the one on the other side where you go down and up, and then they had the downhill. So they basically had four ups and downs through the race, and um, it was just kind of like in the middle of our loops where they took this side loop detour.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Um, so 343, David Norris, the reigning US Mountain running champ. Interesting to see him kind of mix it up on the longer distances.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he was I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's got a lot of range, obviously, Beast in the Mountain Classic. Um, I mean, you were at Sun of P last year, so you got to see that guy's a guy's a machine. He whooped one time at Stark City. That guy is so good. Um, and Drew Holman in second, three hours, 50 minutes, and then Ryan Montgomery, another fan favorite, 357 and third. Um, women's race, all within the podium, all within five minutes of each other, which I think, which I think is amazing for a 50k. Um, Claire Rhodes takes the dub, Helen Minno Faulkner right behind her at 415, Aaron Moyer in 417. Aaron's another like low-key crusher that people are just starting to learn about too. So crazy.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think um I was at the 50K crewing one of my teammates at the first aid station, and it was such a close race um with the women, especially. They just came in like one after the other after the other, and um, they were really close. So I think that was a really cool race to see, and um, just see people kind of switching up through the race and uh competing really, really well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, awesome. Dude, I can't believe it. So I was looking at this this grouping of athletes, and then I was looking at the just the 30k and 50k for Gorge Waterfall next month. I'm like, oh my god, Dylan's able to get like he's got a lot of people coming to his races, like these really big names in the sport. So that's exciting. Oh yeah. Big Alta, I think is a great early season race. And uh yeah, anything else to add on to that or what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Totally, yeah. And I think that you're spot on with that. I think, especially this year, with potentially maybe some Americans not doing some of the Golden Trail series races because it is a lot harder for Americans to get over there. And some of these athletes too aren't sponsored. I don't think Taylor Tuttle has a sponsor right now. Um, hopefully she will soon. Um But yeah, I think some of those some of these athletes don't have sponsors, and so getting over to Europe is really, really hard for some of those races, but getting out to Big Alta or to Gorge Waterfall isn't as big of a stretch um for your wallet. So um, yeah, I think these are great races, and it's awesome that we're getting some really, really competitive races in the US.
Trans Gran Canaria Marathon Recap
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Um, all right, let's let's shift gears. Let's get into TGC. We had uh the Transgrain Carrier, yeah, Trans Gran Canaria uh Marathon just a few weeks ago. 47k, 1800 meters of climbing. Dude, the Spanish just like beat up on people in this race. I get it, because it's it's it's basically in the can it's in the Canary Islands, so it makes a lot of sense as to why there would be such a strong Spanish contingent. Um yeah, just an absolute Spanish whooping. And uh we had some Americans do pretty well as well, not to be too North American bias, but we've we had some Americans in the mix. Uh on the men's side, we had Antonio Martinez Perez, who is kind of a mainstay on the World Skyrunner series, um, as well as has had great results at OCC in races like that in the past. Uh he took the overall dub for Spain, um Fran Anguita in second place, another Spaniard, and Miguel Benitas in third. Uh, I do want to give a shout out to uh Boldereit, and I guess we kind of claim them, but also Brazil does. Uh Johnny Luna Lima uh overall in the top ten as well in sixth place.
SPEAKER_00If you wanna take away the women, uh yeah, yeah, I think the women also almost a Spanish sweep there, but um Akram Ralesala uh from Spain, Maria Gill, also Spanish, Caterina Stinta broke it up and was the Italian that was in the top three, and then we had some US representation with Olivia Amber in fifth and Hannah Campbell in sixth. So some of our US athletes did break into the top 10, but definitely um the Spanish were the ones that were carrying that race.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for sure. I'm just realizing when I did this, when I wrote out the script. I oh wait, I TGC, I can't remember if TGC was before Andy's Mountain Sky Race. I should have put dates in there for people, but that's okay. I think people would be okay with the recap.
SPEAKER_00That's okay. Yeah, yeah.
Andes Sky Race Travel And Altitude
SPEAKER_01I think it's just a quick, I mean, a quick TGC. I mean, that's the kind of not the main race of TGC anyway, but I feel like giving the people a little uh little breakdown of it, I think they'd be stoked on it. Um I do want to pivot and go straight to the Andes Mountain Sky Race because you were out there. Uh, you got to see what it was all about. Talk about your experience. I know your travel experience was a little less than fun, but talk about all this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, travel was kind of wild. I I just had flight things. One of my flights was delayed, then I missed the other one. It was just a big whole thing. And getting up to La Parva is kind of difficult as well because you fly into Santiago and then you have to figure out how to get up to this like tiny mountain town that's like two hours away. So um I ended up taking just like the ski van that was up there. Um, and that's how I did it. But it's this really winy road that's up there. But once I got up there, I was kind of stressed a little bit getting out there just because travel was so just like crazy and wild. And while I was traveling, they um sent out the race um like directory thing. Like it wasn't, I didn't find it on their website. Usually you can find it on their website, but I found out the bib pickup was like an hour away from where the race was, and there was mandatory equipment that I needed that I didn't have. So mid-travel, I was like trying to find this mandatory equipment and figure out how I was gonna get my bib number. So I think a little bit disorganized-ish, or maybe I maybe that was my fault, and I uh didn't know where to go to find the information, and it could have been a lot easier for myself, but I felt disorganized until I got to um La Parva. And then after that, it was amazing. I'd always wanted to go to the Andes Mountains, so it was beautiful. I think it's a really cool place to race. It's so different from anything in the US. Um, they don't really have like trees up in La Parva, so it's a different kind of like ski resort-ish area than you would see up in the US. And part of it is part of that is because it's so high. I think it um is at 9,000 feet. That was the starting altitude of the race. So it is a really, really high altitude race, which um makes sense when you see some of the times from the Skyrunner race because they're slow times, but I think their highest altitude up there was 17,000 feet. Um, so they're getting really, really high. It's a really steep race, not fast trails, they're climbing a ton. Um, but it is definitely a mountain adventure out in the Andes.
SPEAKER_01So crazy. Talk about your course. So you ran the 10K out there. Was it more of an up-down, like a mountain classic kind of race, or was it flatter? Like what was the course profile like?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was, it was um, it was a really interesting race. I've never run a race like this, but it was essentially like we went up uh the same trail that we went down. So you and the eight, there is a 10K and an 18K and then the sky race. Um, but the 10K and 18K, um the 18K went first and then the 10K, but they were both on the same course too. So during the 10K, you're passing like the 18K people um that were kind of like in the back of the pack. And then you're also on the way down, you're passing those same 18k people and the people that are behind you in the 10K race. So that was just interesting in a trail race to be like the same course up and down. Um, it definitely made for like a harder downhill kind of like trying to navigate around people. Um, but it was kind of like a VK up and then a VK, like down, or I guess it's not a VK when you're going down, but that same steepness downhill. Um, so really, really steep, but also a cool race. Um, slow trails for sure. Like they were really sandy and um really steep because it was like a VK. And once you're at the top, you're kind of like, I think you're at 11 or 12,000 feet. So you're up high at altitude, running in sand. The most of the last mile um of the uphill I was hiking. So really steep, but really, really pretty coarse for sure.
SPEAKER_01So cool. How did you feel with that altitude? Was it like especially coming from Boulder? Boulder's what, five, five and a half thousand feet up? Still altitude, but not like when you when you're racing at 9,000 feet, it just hits different. It's a it's a different game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I think for me each day, like I don't really know how I'm gonna feel. Some days I feel really great during pregnancy, and then other times I don't really feel that great. So I think it's hard for me to compare right now how it feels running at altitude versus like running up at like 10,000 feet because I didn't run like in Dallas on a layover when I was coming over and felt terrible. Like I felt like I was running at altitude when I'm at sea level. But then I got up to the Andes Mountains. And I don't know if it was just because it was like so pretty and I wasn't thinking about how I was feeling as much, but it felt like fine and kind of normal. But I'm also, I also just know like I'm not going to be running as fast as I normally do. So I feel like I've kind of been able to let go paces a little bit now. But other races I've done, if I race at 9,000 feet, I definitely feel it. So I'm sure I felt it. It's just harder to like know at this point in my life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I think it's great. One thing it's worth saying, while pregnant, you won this race. You got first at the 10K, which is amazing. So pretty freaking cool.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, it was fun. It was fun just to be able to do that and really just to be able to push myself some during pregnancy. I think it was fun racing this race in um Big Alta. And yeah, just being able to push a little bit because I didn't know if that would be a possibility during pregnancy. So yeah, it was fun.
SPEAKER_01So cool. So cool. All right, let's take it away. I'll let you uh take it away with the results. Uh starting with the women, um, definitely, definitely some. I feel like you said, like some of the times, like crazy for a 35k race, some of the rate like finishes were in the eight-hour range, which is wild.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, that's what I was gonna say at the start of this. I feel like it's on the line of being an ultra, even though the race was 35k, because the times are close to like what Jen was running at Black Canyon. Like she ran right under uh eight hours, I think. And then the winner, Rosalia Zagara of this ran 741 for first place. So it's almost like an ultra time-wise, um, when you're out there for so long. But anyway, yeah, the um it was really cool to see all these athletes crushing it out there. Um, Rosalia Zagara from Peru was first in 741, seven hours 41 minutes. Lena Elcott uh from Sweden ran 810 and she was in second. So there was a bit of a gap between Rosalia and uh Lena. Rosalia just really crushed this race. And then Anna Maria Pineda uh from Colombia ran 817 for third. So really Peru, Sweden, Colombia, there are athletes from all over. Um, I definitely think that in these South American sky runner races, there is a good amount, there are a good amount of South American athletes that go, which is fun to see because when you're over in Europe, sometimes you don't get to see those athletes or race them. But um, some of them are really, really standout, amazing athletes. So um it's fun to be over there and and see some of the South American athletes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, big time. On on that topic, I wanted to ask you just because culturally, like, what did you think of the food of the experience? Because I feel like such a big component. Like every we talk about you know, results of races, right? But like I feel like getting over there and actually having the experience of being immersed in this culture and getting to meet the people that live there and put on this race. Like, what were your thoughts on that? I feel like that's almost like such a different picture to talk about.
SPEAKER_00Totally. Yeah, I think it's so fun just to get to experience the culture and be over there. It's fun getting to see the athletes that are from South America. I got to run with Anna the day before the race, and we just did a shakeout together with some of the other athletes there. And um, she's so cool. So, yeah, it was really awesome just getting to talk with those athletes about what their experience is like running trails in their country and kind of like what their race schedule is and some of the things that are hard about trail running for them or some of the things that they love. Um, so yeah, I think you just really, really get to know a lot of different people. Um, and yeah, also cool meeting um Lena Elcott from Sweden because she's been on the Meryl team for a long time since I've been on it, and I've never met her. And she's a twin, and her sister just had a baby. So I was like asking her all the questions about how her sister's doing and stuff. Um, so yeah, anyway, it was just like a really cool thing to get to meet and talk with all these athletes from all over the world.
SPEAKER_01So cool. What an experience. I love these. Uh like I said, just culturally, you get to learn so much more about these different places, and it's yeah, it's pretty awesome. Um, all right, shifting gears, uh, give the breakdown of the men. Jose Manuel, uh Jose Manuel Mama Keese Bay, yeah. Keispe, Keispe. Um from Peru, 603-03 in first place. Fran Muez, another Peruvian, 614-26 in second. And then American uh yeah, American Morgan Elliott keeps getting himself on these uh podiums. Good shout out to Merrill Athlete, Morgan Elliott from the United States, 6'2-13 in third place. So another great finish for Morgan. Um, yeah, super cool to see. Uh I'm I'm glad we're starting to see more North Americans kind of filter their way into uh some of the World Skyrunner series races. I think it's that's super awesome because it's I don't know, when you think about like Europe and and the way Europeans kind of grow up racing, I feel like that becomes second nature to them on a lot of the technical terrain. Whereas like we come from such a traditional track and field background, and I feel like that filters more athletes into the golden trail series because it's kind of a different style of racing, if you will. It's more fast, it's it's different components. Um, so it's cool to see more American athletes kind of filtering them right into the World Skyrunner series as we as we kind of go, which is dope.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. And I feel like for the men, Morgan Elliott is really leading the way for US athletes in the Skyrunner World Series. He's been at a couple already this year and podiumed at both of them. So I'm excited to see the rest of his season. I think he's planning on um going being in America and doing some of the national Skyrunner World Series, or I guess not World Series, but Skyrunner National Series races over in the US. And I think we were talking about it. It's gonna be really fun to see how he and Dan Kurtz, who's probably doing a bunch of those, and some of those guys like up in the East Coast um compete with each other. Um, so yeah, I think that'll be really exciting this season. And I think it was also really exciting on the men's um side. I had always seen Jose Keispe um and his name up like in the Skyrunner World Series. He always crushes those races, but it was fun to actually get to meet him in person and see him have such a dominant performance. And um, so yeah, it was really, really cool to see him racing.
SPEAKER_01So awesome. Yeah, like like you said earlier, it's really cool to see a lot of the more shine on the South American contingent of athletes because you know, in the world scene, every now and then for like a UTMB race, like one of them will kind of pop up and they'll be talked about. But like that's really it. But it's really cool in series like this, they get races in you know in their home countries and it's you know more conversation around it and just more shine on the fact that it's just such a global sport, which is awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Acantilados Del Norte Sky Race Results
SPEAKER_01All right, let's shift gears. We'll go to Acintil Dios, uh, Del Norte Sky Race. Man, I gotta, I gotta really work on my space.
SPEAKER_00I think it's Acantilados Del Norte Space. Uh I have always or also had a hard time um pronouncing that.
SPEAKER_01People from other countries are like, who what is this guy saying?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Sorry guys. Um amazing sky race. I feel like this was one of the I know we talked about like the point rankings, and I feel like this one pulled a much deeper field as in some of the other uh races. Is it a red versus white? I think this was the uh was a specifically a red um point ranking race, something like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you're right, which um we've talked about a little bit before, but the red races are ranked um or weighted a little bit uh heavier point-wise. So um the athletes in this race earn more points than the ones from the race in Chile, the Andes Mountain race. Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Very cool. And you know what's cool? I love how folks go out, like Canary Islands is like, you know, how we talked about TGC, um, a perennial racing scene on kind of the global racing circuit. So we have TGC and then this particular sky race also in La Palma and the Canary Islands. This one in particular, 29K, so 18 miles with about 6,600 six, I'm sorry, 6,561 feet of vertical. Uh new course record on the women's side. No surprise there. Sarah Alonzo, absolute killer. I'll let you take it away for the uh for the women's contingent for the top five.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we had Sarah Alonzo, who you just mentioned, course record. Um, really, really amazing performance. She's an amazing athlete, really, really fun to watch run. Um, but not that far behind her, just six minutes behind her was uh Patricia Pineda. So I think Sarah had an amazing, amazing race, but these other women aren't too far behind, which is kind of fun to see um as well. Marta Martinez, who has done really well in the Skyrunner World Series, I think she did really well last year in the Skyrunner World Series. Um, but she ran a 307, so she was just a minute behind Patricia and then Amanda Nielsen from Sweden, 309, and then uh Shen Gave Balendran, I think from Norway. Um, it was came in at 311 in fifth place. Um so that those were the top five women. Um great runs from all of them.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. I mean, about a little bit, so 10 a little bit, I guess 10 minutes between the top five separating. That's pretty solid for uh such a brutal race that was like so technical. So very good.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Um took it away on the men's side, Menu Morales, uh, arguably one of the best downhillers on planet Earth. Uh Spanish athlete took the dub in 231.54. Fred Chantard, the um, I guess the 2025, yeah, world mountain running champion in the short trail, 233-12. Uh, so just about a minute and a half, two minutes behind Manu. Um Alan uh Santa Maria, another Spaniard, 236.09 to round out the podium. Damian Bogdan from Romania was in fourth in 237.45. And then Lois, Lock, Loick, uh, Robert uh from Spain at 237.54 uh to round out the top five. So pretty crazy. So within four and a half minutes, the top five was all within one another. So very competitive. This was uh definitely brought out kind of who's who as far as the racing scene um between Manu, Fred, uh, who seemed to be kind of back and forth, uh, the two of them, both between worlds. I think they were both on them, I believe they're both on the podium at Worlds in the Short Trail. Um, and then same with the women, uh, just a very tight contingent of athletes.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, the men's side was even closer than the women's side in this race. So um, yeah, really cool to see some of these trail races getting closer and closer together because I think that just makes for a little bit more fun competition.
Previews For Calamoro And Gorge
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I can believe, and you know what's crazy? Like, not to totally shift gears, but like we have Cal Marillo Sky Race coming up super uh super soon. I didn't see a start list for that, but it that's another one that's gonna be taking place up uh just in a week and a half, so April 11th.
SPEAKER_00And then we've got Gorge Waterfalls as well. Um Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing it'll be a lot of the same athletes that were at this last one because it also takes place in Spain. So I think a lot of the Spanish athletes, maybe Sarah Alonzo will be back, maybe Marta Martinez will be back. Um, so yeah, I think we'll see some more Spanish athletes there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I feel like Calamoro is one of the more, I feel like that's one of the most, if not one of the more well-known Skyrunner series races, like on it, kind of on, I guess you could say on the uh circuit, if you will. 18.6 miles. So it's a 30k race, 2200 meters of vertical. So 7,217 feet. I had a buddy of mine, Benjamin Townsend, uh, I think I think he was it was at Calamaro last year. He went out and raced, and uh he was talking about how much vertical it was and just like killed his feet. He's like, dude, my feet were dying. I was like, interesting. So I don't know, uh it's a new one. But yeah, it's um yeah, it's gonna be a barn burner nonetheless. And then we've got one of the things I really like is that through Ultra Sign up we can get much quicker access to uh racing contingents on on so we can get see like who's gonna be racing what for the Gorge Waterfalls races. Um dude, it's just like a crazy, yeah. Everybody's gonna be at these Gorge Waterfalls.
SPEAKER_00All the races.
SPEAKER_01Um let's talk about let's talk about the 30k women. Because I feel like that's that's the uh that stood out to me the most between I'll let you talk about who's gonna be there, but dude, it's like who's I mean, yeah, it is really, really crazy.
SPEAKER_00So we have Lauren Gregory, who was the winner of the Golden Trail Series final last year, Taylor Tuttle, who just got the course record at Big Alta, who took it from Tabor Heming, who is also in this race, Allie Mack, who is the world championship in the uphill in 2022, I think. Um that was the year that she won Worlds. Uh, Jade Bellsberg, who is a Canadian champion um in mountain running. So those athletes alone, really, really amazing. And then even farther, we have four more amazing athletes: Riley Brady, Robin Vieira Brower, Alexa Aragon, and Jenna Bensco. Um, so yeah, I think that is a really, really wild um group of athletes that are just going to go and uh crush, crush this race.
SPEAKER_01I want to give a shout-out too. I'm so excited to see Alexa Aragon on this. Uh so Alexa uh doesn't really race a ton outside of like the Cirque series. She did do, she I think she was top five or top six last year, if I remember correctly, at the Broken Arrow 23K. So crazy, crazy, you know, speedy race. Um, and then won the overall Cirque series ranking in 2025. So it's gonna be very interesting to see her kind of step up in distance. She was a steepler at Notre Dame. Um cool to see her kind of step up. And then, dude, I I'm I'm very interested in this Lauren Gregory Taylor Tuttle matchup, especially like both of them are in Boulder. It's it's uh this is like a cool little, I don't know, fun little rivalry we've got. I think this would be fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think Lauren Gregory is really good on um, I mean, she's fast on the trails that aren't technical too, but she really, really outshines a lot of people on the technical trails. And I don't think that um Gorge Waterfall has super technical trails. Um, you've raced it before, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I've been out, I've been out there uh trained on those trails a little bit. They're like uh, I don't know. Like if you catch a toe, like you you can you'll tap a knee and you'll get bloody, but like not okay, it's not um it's not the northeast, let's put it that way. It's like runnable technical, if that makes sense. Like there's there's rocks, it's not California carpet, it's like maybe in that in between. Um, but yeah, I mean, especially for the 30k course, I think the most technical aspect is you kind of go when you it's like the waterfall section, you kind of run through a stream, and there's like some rocks and stuff there. So I I mean, I think if I remember correctly, Anna Gibson won the whole thing outright last year. Pretty sure, won the entire stream.
SPEAKER_00I think she was second overall, but I think you're right where she like I saw her name and I was like second, like I wonder who beat her. And then I was like, oh wait, I'm looking at like the overall results. Like, this is the men too. So and then I was like amazed, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. So I I mean, I there's a chance we could see a similar. I mean, I don't know, maybe not this year, but I can tell you right now, some of these women are gonna be catching some of these men, no doubt about it. Um, that said, I am excited for the the men's contingent looks good as well for the 30k. Uh Liam Myro, I don't uh he signed up for both the 30k and the 50k. He's a wild boy, yeah. So I could see him racing both. Uh right. I don't know. He's I don't know. He's he's really deadly at that 30k distance. Um, like at that, you know, the more of the golden trail level distance. He's more traditionally a short trail athlete. He's raced 50k before, so I don't know. I don't know. He signed up for both. We'll see what he does. Uh Tyler McCannless, I'm very excited to see kind of step up in this distance. He's a deadly fast marathoner and half marathoner. Obviously, I'd say more well known on the trail scene for the uphill racing. Uh, he was uh part of the world's team last year for 2025. And uh yeah, I can definitely see Tyler doing very well here. It's a completely different type of thing for him. He I feel like showed his chops uh that he can race on technical terrain at Sunnepe last year, where he was definitely, I think he, I'm pretty sure he was in the top five or definitely in the top ten. I want to say he was close to the top five. Uh, so he was very close to making that up-down team. Caleb Olsen interests me a little bit. This is gonna be fun to see uh training partners Caleb Olsen and Tyler Green both uh in this race. Mason Copey, uh, who I think is criminally underrated, in my opinion. Should have a sponsor.
SPEAKER_00Most underrated trail runner. He and Taylor Tuttle right now, I think. Yes, most underrated trail runners out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, shoot deals, shoe deals for both these athletes, everybody. Yeah. Um, and then we've got Remy LaRue, who I think is another um another contender, without a doubt. Um, he seems to be, in my opinion, I think he's one of the best in the world in the up-down distance for sure. He've proved that at worlds. Um, great at circ series races, but he seems to be kind of stepping up in these longer distances, probably trying things out before the golden trail to maybe race some of those longer uh golden trail races this year. Um, we'll also have Adrian McDonald, who's a two-time Leadville 100 champion. Uh, Grant Cooligan as well, and uh Nick Cornell. Nick uh Nick's my sleeper. I threw Nick in there just for support.
SPEAKER_00Nice, yeah. Love Nick Cornell. No, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right, let's talk about the 50K contingent. If you want to, I'll let you take it away for the women because that's another stacked women's women's field.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have uh Jennifer Lichter, Bailey Kualchek, uh Rana Schwartz, Tara Dower, Emily Mann, I'm a Jane Ainsworth. So so many women that have had great racing seasons already. Um, and then some that this is kind of their opener. I know um Bailey, she hasn't raced in a little bit, but she has had outstanding trail performances, and I think that she's really kind of hitting her stride training and boulder right now. So really excited to see her back in some races. Um, Emily Mann is uh my Merrill teammate, and I think that she's kind of um, she had some great races last year, and she I think is gearing up to crush this year in the trail. So I'm excited to see her. Um Jennifer Lichter obviously just crushed Black Canyon, and so that'll be really fun to watch her race. So yeah, just a great field of women at the 50 thing.
SPEAKER_01I want everybody to win. This is this is like so hard to pick these.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh interesting. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, I don't know, it's um I don't know. Like, I'm I'm really excited to see Bailey back. I think it's super especially because like she's been kind of you know, kind of went through it with injury last year. So it's really cool to see her kind of kind of go after. And she's won, if I remember correctly, she's actually won the 30k a few years ago. So cool, cool to see her. I know it's gonna be a big like ACG show out. There'll be lots of uh because I think the race is sponsored by ACG this year.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_01Lots of ACG athletes there, and then the men's contingent on the 50k looks pretty crazy as well. Anthony Costales just got second place of the Black Canyon 100k. He's a former champion there. Um, incredible athlete, trains out of uh kind of the Utah scene. I think it's Salt Lake. Uh Liam Myro. Questionable. I'm not like I said, we talked about he's also some 30K, 50k. We don't really know. One of the most interesting people in the sports to me. Last time I had him on the podcast, yeah. He was baking a banana bread.
SPEAKER_00And like that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Uh David Norris, um, another one. He uh just came off a win at uh the Big Alta 50K. Um, I think this is more David's race than Big Alta is, in my opinion, just because he comes from Alaska. He's so good on technical terrain, it's not even funny. Um, so it'll be cool to see him race this, and I'm sure he'll have a great performance there. Jared Hazen, who's a name we haven't seen in a while. It's gonna be cool to see Jared back on kind of on the scene. Um I don't know, like probably a first ballot hall of famer in our sport when you look at his body of work over the last decade and a half. So it'll be cool to see Jared back. Matthew Seidel, who's a Nord athlete, and then Ryan Montgomery, who just was on the podium of the uh Gorge Waterfall 50K as well. So really, really cool contingents of athletes. Like it's gonna be very fun to see kind of how this uh kind of pans out, if you will.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, true. And I think it'll be similar to Big Alta, and that the vibes will be awesome there. There's so many amazing true athletes there, and um, I think everyone's really ready to race.
SPEAKER_01For sure, for sure. Yeah, next year put that on your list. I might go do the 30k next year. I I it's a little like long for me, and I was like, ah, do I do it really like it's a yeah, but it's you know, PNW vibes, like that whole like Cascade Locks, Oregon area is so cool. Uh yeah, yeah. For people going out there to race it, like you're in for a treat. And if you haven't been there before, like really cool area. And the trails both on both sides of the gorge are sick. Like you can get right on the PCT, kind of on the side of uh where the race is specifically. So the training grounds there are great. And then even across the river on the Washington side, great trails there as well. So it's it's a cool area.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Yeah, I think Daybreak Racing goes to some really, really cool places. Big Alto, like Murray County, are some of my favorite trails, and these sound like amazing trails too. So I definitely need to put this one on my list of races to do.
Free Agency Signings And Brand Grades
SPEAKER_01For sure. For sure. All right, let's pivot a little bit. I definitely wanted to pick your brain because I know I have a feeling you knew, obviously, because you're Grayson's friend. So you knew about this the Solomon situation, which is, I think, super cool. Yeah. Definitely want to say, so we'll pivot a little bit to the free agency because this was like more of a free agency announcement that we've got within the last few weeks, where um Grayson obviously signed with Solomon and Tovey Alexanderson uh did as well. I think, in my opinion, I'm gonna give Solomon an A plus as far as uh these signings. Like amazing free agency signings for 2026. I know they I guess they were kind of like in an in-between period trying to maybe figure out their team when it came to the end of 2025, but I think this makes up for it 100%. This is uh like I care more about what Solomon's doing now with these athletes on the team, specifically, I think, with Grayson, which is awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. I think um they didn't have a ton of Americans on the team um in the past couple years. I think there was a year or a few years a while ago where they had a lot of Americans on the team, then they didn't really have as many. And so it's kind of fun to see um Grayson signing with them. And yeah, like you said, it just kind of makes you a little bit more interested when you have somebody from your country that you're invested in and cheering for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I also gotta say, I mean, this is a this is a near and dear conversation, the stuff like we've been talking about, like on the pregnancy side. I think it's great that they're also signing, like they're showing because we had talked about before, um, you know, this we'll get to this and like when we get to more of the news aspect, um, with um Emma Bates and this whole converse controversy around being dropped um as a pregnant athlete from her nutrition sponsor. While Grayson is pregnant, she gets picked up by Solomon, and I think that's you know, it goes to show you like, I don't know, kind of uh different brands with different things and how this kind of works in the space. So I think that's a great kind of a great thing.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And to me, it's kind of like a no-brainer. Like I was kind of thinking who wouldn't want to pick up Grayson Murphy, like a two-time world champion. And um, it's funny, like I feel like she has had some years that are harder, and she's also had some amazing performances, and um, she's just one of the most inspiring people to me because I don't think she lets anything get in the way of being excellent and doing the best that she can on the trails and still setting really high goals, um, whether that's going through Crohn's disease and still coming out on the other side and making huge goals to make a world team and the short trail team, which is a distance that she hadn't tried before. Like I just think that that's amazing. Um, so whether it's that or running through pregnancy and kind of taking on this new challenge and new kind of season of life, but still wanting to run, I think that um, yeah, it's just really inspiring. And I think it makes um her even more relatable to women that are running in trails or on the roads and trying to chase their own running dreams, whether they're moms or they're thinking about becoming moms. I think it just makes um elite athletes feel a little bit more relatable to people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I love it. And that's the thing. Like, I don't know. If you're signing an athlete just because like obviously Grayson is one of the greatest, you all are. Like you're you're a first ballot hall of famer in the sport. Grayson's one of the goats. Um, yeah, I just think it's it's but you're so much more than performance. Like when you assign an athlete, you're getting a lot more than just someone who's gonna go out on race day. You're getting someone that does so many different things for the sport. You guys are ambassadors for the sport. So yeah, I'm gonna get off my my soapbox on that. But I think it's it's it's very important. Um, so no, I think it's a great, and I think Solomon A plus. I that's what I'll give them as an A plus for their uh signing. And I think Toby as well, great, great signing. Um God, I mean, after watching what she did at Worlds, like that was that was kind of a crazy performance. So yeah, big time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then Arctaryx, I think I said this in the last episode, but it's been finally announced. This was this took forever. Uh, Jane and uh Kyle Richardson both getting picked up. Jane Moss uh and Kyle both getting picked up by Arctaryx, um, which I think another brand I'm gonna give an A plus to. I think that they made some great signings this year. Um, I think getting Jane was a was a great signing, and Kyle as well. I think both of them with their own unique styles of of the type of athletes that they are. Um, I think it it it's a great, yeah, it's a great thing. So two A pluses there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, two A pluses. Yeah, it's really exciting to see some of those athletes getting um some contracts like that. And I'm really excited for Jane's season this year. I feel like we haven't gone to talk about her a ton because she hasn't raced yet, but or wait, no, she did at Black Canyon, but um yeah, I think I'm just really excited to see um how she does racing this year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I think Jane is like kind of the next, I don't know, one of the next big names. I feel like I mean she's already, in my opinion. I put her up there. Uh I agree. Yeah, yeah. One of the big names, but like I think with this partnership and that ability to kind of, you know, freedom to go do what she wants in the mountains. I think that'll that'll help. Like it, I think she's going to go, she might be on the start list for Cam Camera. I gotta text her and find out. Um I know she's on the start list for one of the sky races. She's gonna be racing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is uh calamoro. I talked with her, she was out crewing somebody at um Big Alta, and I ran into her um and got to talk for a little bit, but I think she is planning on going over there and doing um Calamoro. So yeah, that'll be exciting to see her race there.
Sierre Zinal Split Starts Debate
SPEAKER_01Dude, she's so good on technical terrain. Like she's good. So yeah, yeah, excited for her. And I'm excited to see Kyle has an ar uh Kyle's like, you know, he's got the FKT on longs and he's a very artsy guy, but like never really races. But like I know for a like I think he said it in the pod we did, so I feel like I can put this out in the world. But he is racing this year. He's not gonna he didn't say what he's gonna race. I got a feeling that it's gonna be a sky race, so it'll be cool to see him like in the scene as well this year. So yeah, a little bit different and unique for him. Um, yeah. Moving on, let's talk about series and all because they had some a big announcement uh this past week as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Really exciting. I'm excited for this because this is something I've thought since the first time I ran series in all in like 2021. But they finally have separate women's and men's start times this year. So um typically they've had a big mass start with all the men, all the women in the race. And um I was saying this on my Instagram story yesterday because I um was excited that they're doing this, but it has made it fair for the women in the sense that every woman has to deal with this and deal with like going out with all of the men. But it definitely makes the race less fun because you're all in this start line together. A lot of times there are people that are pushing their way up to the front and they go out really, really fast on the road section for half a mile, and then they just start walking as soon as they get into the single track trail, and it makes it really, really hard to get around them because you're already in the single track um section. So I think this just makes it so that each field is able to kind of settle into their own rhythm at the start from the start of the race. And I just think it makes it more fun and enjoyable for athletes to race.
SPEAKER_01I agree, I agree. What do you and we've kind of talked about this before the 10 a.m. start? Is that I know it like I don't know if people know this, but like everybody like dies of heat during brutal. Is do you think that'll be a little bit better at least? Because I feel like before it was, I think it was 11 a.m. or like a little bit later, right? Start?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think so. I think I mean I think it'll be better. I think that um when I've been on the start line, I've already been sweating because you're packed in there with hundreds of people and there's all this body heat and it's hot outside, and then you start climbing um and you're just hot. But um, you do luckily get into some shade on that first climb, but it's so steep that you're working pretty hard already from the start. Um, so yeah, I do think the 10 o'clock time will be a little bit better. I'll be interested to see what they do with the tourist race because typically the tourist race starts off pretty early in the morning, but we still run into them while we're racing and they're usually hiking. So I feel like series in all is just kind of wild with the amount of people that they have out there on the trail in one day because it's the tourist race, it's the men, it's the women. Um, and it is interesting because it is like a prestigious race and they only take so many people, but it's still a lot of people that are out there on the trail.
SPEAKER_01So interesting. I don't think people know that it runs like not alone. I say this all the time, but it runs from a place called Siri to a place called Zanal. And and people always wonder like where the name comes from. Well, there you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Yeah. Um it is cool. It is um a net uphill race. So you climb and then you descend some, but you don't get to descend all the way. Um, but it is a really fast race. A lot of times, people that are really, really good at road marathons and things like that do really well in this race.
SPEAKER_01I got a question for you on this. Like, obviously, when we race, like uh when you're racing hard, you're not really looking around. You're kind of just looking down and like racing people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Series and all is like one of the most beautiful courses on planet Earth. Like, do you really look up and like, oh my god, that's Hotel Vicehorn? Or like are you just like blacked out and like have your head down and just like I have to be focused?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I try to enjoy it some. This is why I like getting out to races like a few days before or staying a few days after, so that I can go back on the trail and say, This is what I'm going to see, or this is what I should have seen during the race, just because you're right, it is so pretty. Um, so it's fun to get out and do some course scouting ahead of time when you're just running nice and easy before the race. And there are some places that you can get up to where you drive up higher onto the ridgeline. Um, and then you can do a run from there and kind of see some of the course. So I did that last year and that was really fun. Um, but yeah, I I think it's a little half and half. I try to enjoy it, but I also try not to fall on my face because I'm enjoying the trails and then kick a rock or something like that.
Final Thoughts And Wrap
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's tough. It's tough. It's like, I don't know, it's almost you'd rather the course be not so beautiful, so you don't have to, you could just stick your head down and just do what you gotta do. I mean, you're in the heat of battle anyway, so it's a it's a different game. So totally, yeah. Anything else do you want to get to? I feel like we covered pretty much most of what we had. Is there anything else you think we missed?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel like that's a great. I mean, yeah, we covered a ton. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01This is a good one. Yeah. Next one we'll have, I don't, I don't know how I can pronounce it because I gotta get my I gotta work on my Spanish. Calamor, yeah. Um I know for someone with an Italian background, I feel like I should read much better at the Mediterranean languages. I'm just not. It's really bad. That's my improvement. That's my goal for the next episode is start working on those things. So you got it. Well, Rachel, amazing episode as always. Thank you so much for coming on. Uh, have a great, have a great next month, and uh, we'll check in for the next one. Appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks. Yeah, you too.
