#178 - Stevie Kremer

Stevie Kremer's name is stitched into trail running history, but the part that surprised us most wasn’t the podiums. It was how she built a world-class career without letting running swallow her life whole. Stevie takes us from a childhood split between German roots and growing up in Connecticut to discovering running later than most, then finding her stride in Colorado and accidentally stumbling into the trails that would define her.

We talk about the rocket-ship years of skyrunning and mountain running when she was traveling to Europe, lining up at iconic races like Sierre-Zinal and Zagama, and winning on courses that still intimidate the best athletes in the sport. Stevie shares what it felt like to join the Salomon team during a formative era, how team camaraderie shaped her experience, and why she often flew in right before a race and left immediately after. Beneath the results is a real conversation about performance anxiety, confidence, expectations, and the quiet pressure of being asked, again and again, “Are you going to win?”

What makes this conversation stick is Stevie’s core philosophy: balance is not a compromise, it’s a strategy. She explains why teaching gave her stability, why limited time pushed her to make runs count, and why enjoying the process mattered more than following a perfect plan. If you care about trail running growth, athlete identity, mental toughness, and sustainable success in endurance sports, this one goes deep.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Stevie Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And today I'm so excited and absolutely honored to welcome Stevie Kramer to the show. Stevie is one of the greatest to ever do it. For those who need some context, there was a period of time there from 2012 to probably 2014 where Stevie was unstoppable. For context, she's the only runner to podium at Series Anal, Marathon Dumont Blanc, Pikes Peak, Zagama, all in the same year. She's the only runner outside of Killian to win Zagama and Series and all in the same year. She's a two-time Pikes Peak Marathon champion. She has won the Skyrunner World Series. She's kind of done it all. And uh yeah, just so excited to get her on the show and learn about more about her and her perspective. Uh, we talked a lot about the sport and its direction, what she thinks about it now, what that time period was like in that 2012 through 2017 era, um, what it was like being a professional in the Solomon team, kind of how that started. And then we talked a lot about balance. Uh, you know, Stevie is a teacher and she would always maintain that balance of professionalism and per both in in what she did professionally for her career as well as professionally as an athlete and being able to find that balance and what that meant to her. I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's definitely one of my favorites. It's uh not every day we get such an honor to have uh an OG uh like Stevie on the show. And uh yeah, this one definitely meant a lot to me. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. Stevie Kramer. This is the Steep Stuff Podcast. Hey Stevie Kramer, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Great. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, I'm I'm uh it's an honor and a privilege. I always love having the greats on, and uh you're one of the greats of our sport, and you know, it's uh I guess uh super exciting to get to catch up and chat and um yeah, just talk about your career and what you've been up to and and you know, kind of tell the story for all the millions of new people that are in our sport because the sport seems to be growing like crazy these days.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I was actually thinking the same thing, and it's awesome, and all kinds of all kinds of racers are joining. And yeah, so it is pretty exciting.

Growing Up Between Germany And Connecticut

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, it's absolutely crazy. Well, before we get started, as we dive into it, like maybe give me, I know I I got some of your biography in the research that I was doing, but maybe give me a little bit of your background as far as uh being born in Germany and then coming to the United States, things like that. Like, where does your story begin?

Finding Running Through Indoor Track

Colorado College And Early Mountain Exposure

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, um, the way you make it sound is like, oh, she comes from Germany. I was there for eight months, I think. Um, no, both my parents are German, and I was also born in Germany. I have an older sister, she was two years older than me, and um, my dad was transferred to New York City with a German bank when I was about six or eight months old. And we moved right outside of New York in Connecticut, um, you know, 50-minute train ride to the city. And so I grew up in Connecticut. Um, yeah, I led your typical life, except I had to go to German school in addition to regular school, and I hated it. But, you know, now I'm pretty grateful for it this many years later. Um, but yeah, I grew up just playing the sports that a lot of people play soccer, tennis, golf, and I wasn't good at anything. Literally, I was terrible. Um, but then when I got to high school, um that's when I I just I hate sitting around. I'm still like that. So the only winter sport that intrigued me a little bit was indoor track. And to say it intrigued me as kind of a little bit wrong, but I just wanted to do something. And I'm five foot nothing, so playing basketball probably wasn't in the cards for me. Um, and so I just, you know, I just started running indoor track and I I hated intervals, I hated interval days, but still stuck with it. Um, but yeah, that was kind of my growing up through elementary, middle, and high school. Um, other than indoor track, I didn't run much, kind of in soccer, but I was terrible at soccer, so we didn't run too much there. Um, but I don't know, do you want me to go on? Yeah, go for it go for it. Yeah, I'll let you take it away. Um, yeah, so then after um high school graduation, I went to Colorado College in the springs. And you know, we grew up as a family taking a couple ski vacations to the mountains in Colorado, went to Breckenridge once or twice. And um, but I never was a mountain girl. Um at that Colorado College was recommended to me based on their program that they have, and it was awesome. Um, and the campus is located right on it right on a trail by the river. So a friend and I, we would just run a few days a week to, you know, fend off the freshman 15. Um it didn't work, but at least it wasn't the freshman 30. Um, I think I stuck with the freshman 15. And yeah, we just ran to do something. And then it wasn't until the summer before my senior year of college I ended up getting an internship in Colorado. And so I was in Colorado Springs in the house that my friends and I were gonna live in senior year. I was by myself for the summer because they all went home to work and I stayed. And so I just started running more, and Pikes Peak was probably 10 miles away. I mean, you drove to Pikes Peak typically. Um, and it's a very runnable 14er. And so, you know, they have a race up there, both the ascent and the marathon. It's 13 miles up and 13 miles down. So, anyway, um a friend of mine suggested, you know, you've been running a lot, why don't you try a race? Why don't you try a marathon? And I thought, sure, why not? Because my internship was only three days a week, so that gave me quite a bit of time. And so they recommend the Boulder Backroads, which is a dirt marathon, but it was flat. And so I just started running quite a bit on dirt, something that Connecticut, sure, you can seek it out, but I've always been the kind of person who I like to run where I'm where I am. I don't like to drive to places. So anyway, I ended up signing up for this Boulder Backroads race, which was September of my senior year, and it was a marathon, and I never thought I would do a race again after that. It was so hard. Mile 22 hit, and my roommates were running with me, just motivating me and telling me childhood stories and jokes to try to keep me going. And I was just miserable. But I was I was a little surprised with my time. I didn't have expectations, you know. I like I said, I didn't really grow up running. Um, but I loved the idea of training for something. It wasn't just I was running, I was I had a goal, and I loved that. And so I didn't do any more races that year in college, but I ended up staying in Colorado Springs for an extra year to get my master's in education. And there I met my current closest friend in Crested Butte, who was marrying the someone that lived in Crested Butte. And so I would go back with her like every weekend because she was meeting her boyfriend and I was playing third wheel.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

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Crested Butte Dirt Roads To Trails

First Sponsorship And First Big Flights

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And I would just run, you know, to give them time because I was living at their house. And so I would just run on the dirt roads. Um, I hadn't gotten into trails at that point yet, but I was enjoying the dirt. And then I ended up moving there. My parents liked it, and they ended up buying a house, and I was their, you know, property manager, if you will. I was paying rent though, for the record. Um and so yeah, I just started running more and more on dirt. And Crested Butte has one main road, and that's the highway. And so you don't really want to run on the highway. So that was kind of my only choice was dirt, and I loved it. And that summer, or the summer after I moved there, someone asked me or suggested I run this trail race. It was called the cart to cart. And we have a coffee shop here called Camp for Coffee. And there's one in town, and then there's one in Crested Butte South where I was actually living. And they were like, you should do it. And I thought, again, I have a goal in mind. I'm gonna do it. Well, I was running in lacrosse shorts and my boyfriend from college's t-shirt. So it was like oversized. I looked like a homeless person running, and I think I was last. I'm pretty sure I was last, but I had so much fun, and I actually got to the end. And this woman or girl at the she's like, Well, do you live in CB South? Would you like to run? And I started meeting people that like to run. And so we started running trails, and that's kind of how I got into trail running. Um, and then, you know, we're surrounded by I think it's what, 54 or 52 14ers, 14,000-foot mountains. And there's a lot of them are runnable. And so I would go and we'd go to different mountains and we'd run up them, run down them, and we're like, oh, this is way faster than hiking. And so yeah, I just got really into, you know, trail running. And and I loved having, you know, not just like an out and back, I loved having the goal of summiting and um just exploring new places. And so, yeah, after I think it was a couple of years later, is when I started doing more local races, and one of my good friends now, she was on the Solomon team, but for adventure racing, there was a crested butte adventure racing team, and she, you know, suggested that she said you should think about trying to get a sponsor. And I was like, not a chance. I am not getting a sponsor. And she actually contacted Solomon for me on my behalf, which I wasn't aware of. And they reached out and they kind of expressed interest, but first just with gear, which was awesome. I never thought in a million years I would get a pair of shoes for free. And then it was 2000. So then I was just doing local races, more, you know, around Colorado. I wasn't traveling at all. Um, but I think it was like 2011, is when they had the um uh like a national championship or something in in Oregon. I think it was Ash, Ashland, Oregon, maybe. Um this one uh so I work at so during the year I work at the school, and then in the summer I work at the country club for I help with events, and he worked at the country club, and he started hearing about my my running and my racing. And I told him about this race, and I was like, Yeah, but I'm not, I can't, I don't want to pay for a plane ticket, it's too expensive. And so he ended up buying my plane ticket, and I ended up going to this race, and I got second to um Megan Lazat, who um I'm I know everyone's heard of her, but anyway, so that was like my first non-Colorado race, and then 2012 is when I applied for or when I uh tried out for the short distance uh national championship to get me to the world short distance. And I was I came in fourth and they took the top four. Um and then yeah, the summer of 2012 is when I went there. I did my first international race in Sierra, in Sierra Zenal. And then I studied, I taught first grade in Italy for the year, and I was so homesick, and my my grandmother lives in Germany, and so she gave me her car, and I ended up just traveling to races. I would look up where a race was and I would travel. I mean, I would travel 10, 12 hours to get to a race, and that's kind of where my running racing career really kicked off, and that's where I joined the Solomon team. Um, so yeah, that was kind of what led up to all that.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

What a story. I I want to go back in time a little bit. I want to ask you about your time in the spring. So I'm based in Colorado Springs.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Oh, okay.

Colorado College Culture And Block Schedule

SPEAKER_01 13:21

I live, I live and train out of here. I I mean I'm on that track at CC. Maybe we'll I was, I mean, for a while there until I switched onto the trails uh in the spring. I was probably on the track once a week. Um, talk to me about CC in the sense where it's a very outdoorsy culture school, at least it is now. Um, when you were there, I would imagine a lot of climbers. I mean, there's plenty, like like Renan Osturk, there's a lot of like professional athletes that have come out of that school. Um what was it like for you when you were there? Was it the same, same kind of culture or a little bit different?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, and I there were definitely, I feel like now that you mention it, I feel like everyone, there were so many climbers. Um, I never got into climbing, but it was a very outdoorsy school for sure. Um, in the winter, I feel like so many people went and skied, you know, everyone carpooled to get to the mountains. Um, I know I think it also depended on, you know, who you connected with. And my roommates, they were, she was on the um lacrosse team. So I feel like when I was there, which was a very long time ago for the record, um, it was a huge climbing school. Like there were so many climbers. Yes, I agree, because we had Garden of the Gods right by us. Um, and also I feel like a lot of people, my friend group included, we all love to do the incline. Did you ever do the incline?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh, I all the time. Yeah, trade on the quick.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I mean, it's changed so much. You used to be able to literally drive straight to the incline and just get started. Now you need to get, you need to like register ahead and get a parking spot because I was actually just there for a college reunion. I don't really want to say what number it was, but um I couldn't even just go do it on a whim. I had to, I would have had to um sign up the night before. It was crazy. But that was always we all that was like a Saturday, Sunday staple in with my friends. And so that was super fun. Um and yeah, we were always outside doing things outside. And we also did, you know, your broom ball in the winter for an intramural sport or intramural sport, yeah. My friend was on the lacrosse team, so we went to go watch her. Um, yeah, we it was like a very healthy school in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah. Did they still, this is just out of pure curiosity, did they still have the block scheduling back then? I have a couple friends that went there. That's why I was curious.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

And and that's what that's what drew me to it. Um, you know, my sister went to the University of Virginia, and I've always, which is really ironic that I say this, I've always been a homebody, and yet I went the farthest away that I almost could from Connecticut. So I when when it came time for college, it, you know, it's not are you going, it's where you going. Just that's the culture I grew up in. And I was not wanting to go to college. I I mean, I did, but I didn't, I didn't care because I just wanted to stay home with my family. And so I applied to like four random schools. And a friend of my parents set saw that I applied to the University of Colorado at Boulder because my family had come out to Colorado a few times, and he said, Have you ever heard of Colorado College? They have this unique block program. And I looked into it and I was like, this is perfect for me because the idea of taking four finals in three days, or you know, like stacking that I'm not that I don't learn great that way. So this program was awesome. And for people that like the outdoors, every block, you know, you you finish, you do your final on that Wednesday, and then you have Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off. And we'd always go explore somewhere. We'd either go ski somewhere or we went to Lake Powell quite a few times, and it was so fun, the places that we were able to go. And the best part was it's not like we had to do homework while we were on our block break because a new block was starting five days later. We were done.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Um yeah, I I recommend it highly. I I had it in grad school uh the block scheduling. I was yeah, you just get a lot more freedom. I don't know, like you're saying, like you can it it's I think it's healthier to be able to experience a little bit more life, but also still get a ton of learning done. It's it's I don't know, I feel like it's a better, it's a better schedule. But did you get to explore uh it back like in that time? Did you get to explore any of the trails around here in the springs? Like, did you get out to do did you really? Okay, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Oh, were you asking me if I did? No.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, oh no, no.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Because I was just just like I was when I first moved to Colorado, I'm not it's funny, I'm adventurous if it's planned for me. I know that sounds weird. Like I like that's why I love races because it's like a new trail that you get to explore, but it's all planned out for you. And I'm I was I'm not scared of getting lost, or I'm not, you know. So that's that was the beauty of it. And although I did my roommates love to run, I think um running was my primary joy. Whereas, you know, one of my friends loved swimming, the other one loved yoga, and you know, the other one was on the lacrosse team. So we all had our other individual interests, whereas mine was primarily running, so I would do it a little more. And I just, you know, like I said, I didn't love driving to the Garden of the Gods to run. It was more just like whatever was convenient. I just love getting out and doing it. And I think that's what I love about running is the simplicity of it. And sure, the same trail gets boring, but you're still out there and you know, every day brings something different, even if it is the same trail. So no, I did not explore that much in Colorado. Interesting.

Convenience Runs And Loving Simplicity

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I want to shift gears. I want to get into uh kind of the the, you know, your career in running. Uh, I mean, dude, there's a there's a period of time, 2012, 2013, 2014. I'd say that 2013, 2014, where you're without a doubt the best, you know, female trail runner on planet earth. How did how did things like blossom? I want to understand like more of your career to where you know you go from running these local races and then you're you're doing a you're doing time in Europe and you start, you know, obviously you have success at Siries and all, but you also have success at Zagama, Mont Blanc Marathon, Stateside and Pikes Peak. How did this all kind of blossom for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I mean, I have to be awesome, uh awesome, honest. Wow. Freudians live there.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Um, it's definitely awesome, that's for sure.

Breakout Years Built On Balance

SPEAKER_00 19:42

No, um I never, and I mean this like my parents never, my family never ever thought I would run in a different country, let alone multiple countries. So it all kind of when I moved to Europe in Italy in 2012, I I did this one race, and it was Solomon, it was Solomon Italy sponsored. And the manager of that team, he I I I I think I I might have I did okay. I don't remember if I won it, I don't know, but he kind of sought me out and kind of took me under his wing. I mean, I didn't know Italian, and he uh pushed me to do different races, and I don't know if it's that I didn't have 10 years of racing background, I don't know if it was fresh for me because really sure I did some races, but I would say 2012 is when I really started really racing, you know. And so some people get burned out or some people are tired or injuries, you know, when you've been doing it for so long, whereas I hadn't. So it was it was just new for me. And I I didn't have pressure that first year because I and I'm not saying anyone knows me now, but really no one knew me then. So there was like no pressure to do to do a certain way. Um, and then I feel like I had some luck in some races in 2012, and that's when this manager suggested to the international manager, if you will, that I join the international team. And so they just flew me out to all the different um like Solomon-sponsored races like Zagama, like um Mont Blanc Marathon. And and yeah, I think that just because I had I I feel like I led a pretty balanced life. Like I never I remember, so I taught that year, and then I was actually supposed to go home in June of 2013. But because of the races in Europe, I stayed, I extended my stay. And um I came home in August of 2013, and my principal, because I was teaching Teaching second grade at the time, she said, Why don't you take the year off and race? You know, we'll we'll grant you a leave of absence, you can have your job back. But I just knew that if my focus was just running, running, running, I think I would have not liked it. I think it would have. So I think the balance that I had with working and racing, I think it was awesome. And it forced me to, when I did have the time to run, I made those runs quality. I never went to a track and did intervals. I I never, I've never had a coach. Um, and I think that all those things helped to make me still enjoy it. And I feel like when you enjoy something, you can be better at it. And I think the second someone told me, you need to do this on Tuesday, you need to do this too, like Thursday, I mean, I probably could have been better had I had a coach. I had I eaten better, I probably could have performed better, had I gotten better sleep, all that stuff. However, you can also look at it like if I did things differently, maybe I wouldn't have had the certain successes that I had. And I have a friend, she's an all-American runner, she's wonderful. She's our cross-country coach and track coach for the high school at this at our school. And she would give me tips and just say, hey, do some intervals, you know, and she would help me and just, and so that was always helpful to jump things off of her. And she would make me a plan. And I don't know if she'll listen to this, but I didn't follow it. I definitely tried, you know, my my way of doing intervals was I would do my run, and I would literally count. I have an issue with twos. I have to do everything, like I wake up on the twos, I wake up at 5:02. I'm crazy like that. And so I would literally in my head count six to 62 and go as fast as I can to 62, and then I would count backwards, and that would be my cool down as I'm running, and I would do that like six or 10 times. Those were my intervals. And if the weather was bad, I would go on a treadmill and I would only do intervals on a treadmill. I would never just run 10 miles on a treadmill. It's way too boring. And so I just I think I just trained or I trained because I love the sport. And you know, I I I am not trying to sound any like, oh, she says she doesn't train. I run a lot. I ran a lot, but I didn't train. I ran because I loved it. And and I did a lot of doubles. I would wake up in the morning at five, run for an hour, and then after work, if I didn't have anything, I would run for another hour. And when you only have that short of time, I felt like I made it as quality as I could. And I think that really helped me as well. Um yeah, I but I don't know where some of my six more successful races came into play. Like Zagama is one of the hardest races I've ever done, and I have no idea how I won that race. I mean, the downhill was terrible. It was so technical, and I think it was technical. I'm sure people don't think it's as technical as I think it is, but I I think a lot had to do with the balance of my life. And, you know, when I would come back from a race, I went back to my normal life of teaching and with friends. I didn't go back to my regimented training schedule or anything like that. And I I really think that that helped me. And I mean, I'm not like a big drinker or anything, but I wouldn't, if I wanted to have a drink, I wouldn't say, oh no, I have a race in three weeks. I would do it. Um, and I just think having that balance and just keeping everything pretty calm was helpful. And don't get me wrong, before a race, the week before a race, I like don't talk to people because I get so nervous still and I'm old.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

But it's like crazy. It can be like a 5k race here, and I will be like, don't talk to me. I it's like those nerves that I've always had. And um, but yeah, that I think that's that just keeping my my normal balanced life is is what really helped me.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Wow, it's so interesting. I just have some stats for you, and I don't even know if you know this. Do you know, other than Killian, you are the only person on planet Earth that has ever won Series and all and Zagama in the same year. Also, Killian hasn't even done this to win, actually, to podium at Pike's Peak, Zagama, Series Anal, and Mont Blanc Marathon in the same year. No one's ever done that before, other than you, which is kind of nuts to think about. When you look, when you think about your career and like look back on stuff like that, that might that probably will never be repeated again. Maybe it will, but uh, as far as today goes, no one's even close, especially now with how crazy competitive the sport is. But when you look back on some of those statistics and some of those things, like, dude, you're in the history books. It's kind of it's kind of wild.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

You know, I need you in my life more often.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

You don't have a big like history buff on the sport. Like, I I love the sport that way.

A Career Stat That Still Stuns

SPEAKER_00 27:13

No, I mean, I I never knew that. I never thought about that. I yeah, it I I don't even know what to say to that. It it definitely feels good, especially, you know, everyone knows Killian, everyone knows what an amazing athlete he is. And even just to be on the same, you know, wavelength as him is pretty, it's pretty fun to hear. Um yeah, I so thank you for sharing that. I I I don't even know what to say.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Talk to me about, I want to hear more about your time with Solomon because this is a different we've entered a different era of the sport where we're in this hyper-professionalization now where people are full-time and it's it's it just seems to get more and more professional as every year goes by. Back in in your time in this 2012 through 2017 era, talk to me about like what it was like being on this team. I know Ricky Gates, uh, Emily Forrestberg, Killian, like this was a just a different world, different team. What was that like being a part of that?

Life On The Salomon Team

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Um, I mean, it was awesome. I and that was that was one of my favorite parts about traveling and being on the team is seeing all these people from different parts of the world, and you'd sit at a table and you'd have seven different accents, eight different languages going on. I mean, it was so cool. And everyone is so nice. Everyone, there was no like animosity amongst racers, you know. Yes, we're on the same team, we wear the same clothes, but everyone cheered each other on. And it was like the second the race started, you were still cheering each other on. There was no, sure, there was internal competition, but you never heard it. And that that was what made the sport even even better, is just how kind everyone was. And I felt so, and everyone was so down to earth. You know, someone like Killian, I'll never forget. Well, I say I never forget, and now I forget where it happened, but um, I think it was in Zagama, and it might have been, I I think I won it the same year as him. Um, I mean, I know he won it a lot, but I think that year he won it as well. And we were just sitting at the table after, and you know, in Spain, and we're both drinking a beer with everyone, but it was just like, oh, these people are normal, you know, yeah, they're amazing athletes. Yeah, this guy is can go up any mountain as fast as he can, but yeah, he's having a beer with me, you know, and I loved just how normal everyone was. And I I think that I I don't know why I think this, but I think I was the least normal. You know, I feel like I I did uh how do I say this? Like when I would race, I would literally get on a plane. Like if my race was Saturday in Europe, I would get on a plane on Thursday night, get there Friday, race Saturday, and come back Sunday. And oh yeah, I did that in China, I did that in South Africa, I did that, it was crazy my the how I traveled. And I think I I think through that I missed a lot of the camaraderie, even though everyone was still so nice to me. Um, but I would just get so nervous for the races that, and I had work that I that I just was so I didn't want to have be there for a week and you know, have just so much buildup to this race. It was that that that stress I couldn't handle. So I would literally show up the day before and race. And then that night after the race, no matter how you did or I did, everyone, it was just like a fun get-together and a fun dinner. And yeah, it was it was such a fun team to be part of and just down to earth and funny, and you know, it it wasn't all racing, racing, racing. It was like everyone does have other things going on, and you could talk normally to people that didn't have to do with racing, and that was very refreshing because I I feel like there are there there are a lot of people who if they ask or if they see how I am or whatever, it's always about racing. And it's like there is more to me than racing, and I feel like this team saw that, and it and it was just fun to have other conversations outside of that. I just jumped to like 12 different things in that little conversation. I'm sorry.

Teaching Monday After Winning Sunday

SPEAKER_01 31:46

That's all good. I like it, I like it. No, well, this is and this is a really important question for, and I think this pertains not just to you, but so many other athletes, especially in in this era now. What was it like you're you're winning these races on a Saturday or a Sunday? And then you know, later in the week, you're you're you're back at work teaching, and you go from like there's thousands of people cheering you on at Zagama, lined on the on, you know, on both sides of the mountain, and you're it's the the biggest stage of our sport, and then you're you're back to kind of just normal life as a as a teacher, and like you have this interesting dichotomy. How did how do you reconcile that? Like, I know you you talk about how balance is so important, um, but I just find it really like admirable and very interesting and cool. Because like most athletes would be like, yeah, I would just I just want to go full time into the running thing. So that way I don't have that um you know the extra stress of of having a day job and things like that. Um but you you seem to thrive in this in this balance. Talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

I, you know, one one big and now now we're getting deep. Um one issue I have is like I I struggle sometimes with confidence. And I think instead of, you know, whenever I if if I had a great race, I feel like the next race would be like, did you win? Are you gonna win? And I hated that more than anything because it was like that pressure. And I and I I just I that's that was the important part to me is that I had something else so that if I didn't win or if I didn't do well, I had something else to fall back on. And even though I feel like my identity for so long, even in crested butte, was racing. I mean, it was literally like, oh, what races are you doing next weekend, Stevie? Where are you flying off to next weekend, Stevie? Because it it turned into literally, I mean, I would say once a month almost. I mean, that's pushing it, but quite a bit. I was getting on an airplane and going on a weekend trip to China or you know, somewhere in Europe. And I just that pressure of, is she gonna win? Are you gonna win? I don't deal well with that pressure. And the truth is, no one cares but me, is is the truth of it. But I think because my identity was so and and I think I feel like I went from like zero to higher number very quickly. It wasn't like I had raced for two or three or four years internationally, and then all of a sudden I started doing better. It was like I came on the international race scene and I started having you know somewhat a little bit of success kind of immediately. Like when I did Sierra Zenal, my first international race, I was second.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Which is crazy. Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Thank you. That's really nice of you. I mean, when I showed up, I had like, you know, my normal street clothes, everyone else was sponsored from head to toe. And, you know, I I loved that I I wasn't no one. And so I don't know where I'm going with this conversation, but I think I knowing I had a race and knowing that I was going home the day after the race, I think that like relieved a tiny bit of stress for me. So that it was like, okay, I'm going back to normal life, no matter what happens in this race, and you know, it's gonna be okay. Because if you don't do well, you have this job. You have these kids that don't even really understand what you're doing. I mean, you know, they're seven-year-olds there, and they don't know what you're really doing. I mean, sure, every time I came back, they're like, did you win? And if I didn't, I was like, no, sorry guys. I, you know, but and I think I love that they were so innocent. Um, but I think once so many people knew me as this as a runner, a racer, I I wanted to, you know, let them know that I'm a teacher as well, or you know, because I wanted them to know there's more to me than just racing. And so I think me going home, you know, after the race right away was so was kind of a relief for me. Even though after so building up to the race, I was like, I don't want to be here, I don't want to race, I'm not gonna do well, this is awful. And the amount of people that called me a sandbagger, but it's truly how I felt. It was like, I got lucky in the last race. That that was my attitude. It was like, I got lucky in the last race, you know. And and then when people say, Oh, are you gonna win? Are you gonna do well? I never lied and said, Oh, I don't train. I just, I don't know how I'm gonna do. You just never know how you're gonna do in these races. And I think I was just so nervous about disappointing people that the anxiety leading up to the race was so bad that I was so excited about going home the next day. I would literally, the night before the race, be like, okay, tomorrow at this time I'll be done. And tomorrow, two hours later, after the race, I'll be on an airplane. That's like how I would talk my way through this. But then when the race was over, I was like, Oh, I want to stay. These people are so nice. I'm having so much fun. Why would I leave? I'm in Hong Kong. I can explore, you know, and so it was just more the anxiety that I liked knowing when I was gonna be done and go back to my normal life. And then I almost regretted it when the race was over.

Confidence Anxiety And The Mental Game

SPEAKER_01 37:05

That's such an interesting dichotomy because you, like you said before, like you love the sport. Like you love the training, you love all the things that go into it, but it's the the competition aspect adds, especially at the highest level of competition. It's a completely different what I'm trying to get out of you because I find this really interesting. Like I've had Joseph Gray, I've had so many greats of the sport on, and I'm just always interested to hear like different people's mindset and how they approach the sport. But it's like what makes you uh like what makes obviously there's there's things that make a great athlete, and there's things that make one of the greatest athletes to ever, you know, participate in the sport. And I think there's a strong mental component too, um, uh that that makes up a huge aspect of you know, this legend of who this person is. Plus, you know, to the anxiety point, you know, you had this time of twenty thirteen, thousand fourteen where you're almost unbeatable, and you it creates this like legend, you know, that that is Stevie Kramer, which is interesting because there's you as the person, and then there's, you know, then there's there's you as this athlete that people think they know, which kind of makes it interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah. And and I think the biggest thing is I never grew up in like a competitor. Like I said, I was terrible at every sport I did. I and I'm not just saying that. I was terrible. I was uh the only reason I was on the varsity soccer team when I was a senior was because they had to take me. I didn't play. You know, I was terrible. And my brother, my younger brother, grew up playing hockey and he was a great hockey player. He played in college, you know, D1. So he was always like the the great athlete. And so it was just never, I didn't grow up like that. I didn't grow up even in college, I didn't join the the running team in college or anything like that. So I think it was almost like the unknown. And then it felt so good when it when I did do well and the race was over. And then I just got nervous because I'm like, oh, I want that feeling again. But what if it doesn't happen? And that that's where my that's where my I hate to say this, but my negative attitude kind of played a detrimental role. Um because I I I did have a negative attitude and I needed to be more positive. But then I was so scared of I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do well, I'm gonna race well, and then if I didn't, I would disappoint myself. So it was a big mental, totally mental game. And I think because I I never grew up having that competitive mentality, I, you know, my frontal uh cortex or lobe or whatever it is, I should know this. Um, it's it was developed. So I just think it was a totally different mindset, and I'd never experienced anything like that before. And it's funny that you mentioned Joe Gray, because him and I have been at he he we've been at a couple races together, and he thinks I'm a total head case, which I am, and I love him.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I've never asked him about you, actually. He's he's a buddy of mine. Yeah, I think.

Falling For Sierre-Zinal

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Yeah, he's he's great, and I loved seeing him. And I would always, when I was done talking to him, I was always so envious that I couldn't have a little bit of Joe Gray in me. Just he was just confident in the right ways. He wasn't cocky, he wasn't, he was just confident at what he did, and I wish I had that. And if he didn't do well in a race, yeah, he was disappointed, but he moved on. And he's like, all right, I still have all these national titles and I'm still gonna get more. And you know, and I was always so envious that I couldn't have that mindset. And, you know, I think I was, and I think all athletes are hard on themselves and and they're hard on themselves differently. And we don't know what happens when the race is over and and the doors are closed. You know, we have no idea. I just wish that I had a little more of Joe Gray in me, or Max King for that matter. You know, he is amazing, he can do any distance and excel, and he might not have a great race. And no matter what, he like learns from every outcome. And I think that I wish I had that more in me. Um, and I and you know, I don't know if it's because I grew up being just like your average middle child, maybe, and then all of a sudden you get some positive, exciting attention and you don't want it to end. And you're just you you know it's going to end, but you don't want it to. And so you're almost anticipating. And so instead of writing it out, you you kind of I kind of screwed myself, if you will. You know, I wish I would have just gone with it and been like, yeah, let's do this. And um, so yeah, I could, you know, there are some things I wish I could have done differently. Um, but the times I had racing, the places I went, I I would not take anything back.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

I want to ask you, because we're I know we're limited on time, we've only got like 15 left, um, a little bit less than that, but talk to me about your relationship with Zeries and all. Like, obviously, I said before, it's Super Bowl of our sport, it's only grown in year in the last few years. Like it continues to get more and more competitive. I'd say, other than Pablo, like you have you were the most successful American like to have ever run this race. Talk to me about your relationship with it, and and you found success at it like relatively quick. And it takes a lot of people, like a few goes at it to actually, you know, I obviously took you a little bit to win it, but like you were on the podium first time around, which is nuts for a race like that. Um, yeah, tell me about your how how much if you love that race and what that race means.

Favorite Courses And Colorado Classics

SPEAKER_00 42:33

I I love every aspect of that race. Um, and I think the first thing is the funniest part about that is so Pablo was always responsible for inviting Americans, and I was literally last on that list um that year. I literally, he's like, Well, I got no one else to ask. And, you know, I was like, sweet, I'm going anyway to Europe. Why not? You know, and I think his mentorship, if you will, was what made me just fall in love with that race. I will never forget that what that race, I did come, I think I got there. So I flew with my family over because we went to go visit my grandparents in Germany. And then my parents, my dad's always been like his child's his children's biggest fan. And with my brother, he went to every hockey game. And my mom, my mom was too. My my dad just, I think he cared a little more. My mom was just a little more nervous. Um, but anyway, so we went to visit my grandparents in Germany, and then my dad and mom were like, hey, we've never been to that part in Switzerland, let's go. So they came with me. And Pablo, because I was the only one that could make it to that race, the American, he just took me under his wing. And he, I mean, he showed me, we took the gondola to the different checkpoints of Sierra Znal, and just made me, he just gave me so much confidence. confidence and he was like just have fun who cares this is great he was so nice to my parents and you know it was just such a welcoming to the international running scene um that that my initial just my initial welcoming was so positive and then to top it off I love the course I loved I'm I'm more of an uphill runner I I don't love technical downhill and you know the first what 8K it's been a few years old VK yeah exactly and then it's just like smooth up and down running and that that course just totally suited me I loved it I mean yes the last little bit is a little technical downhill but I just you know it was just I I loved the course the people were awesome um so I think that just being introduced to international racing with that race I just fell in love with and you know it's funny because after that I didn't oh and it was my first time I had to take a drug test and it was just like oh my gosh I have to take a drug test. It was I mean and I couldn't pee because I don't drink water. I'm known as not drinking water like I'll finish a run and I'll have like cracked lips and that's why I have all these wrinkles and you know so it's just so funny. I could not go to the bathroom to the point that my parents left me because we had a flight that night and I missed my flight because I couldn't go to the bathroom. And so they left me and I had to get on a plane the next morning to go back to Germany my where my grandparents were but I just I'll never forget I loved that I had to take a drug test because I was like this is real. I I'm I might be real um and yeah I think the course and the um the directors at least when I was running they were all so nice and so welcoming and it makes such a difference when you know people are just so friendly and you know they don't they don't care how you do you know they want to make a great race and a great experience for everyone and it showed it wasn't I don't think they ever asked me oh are you going to win or you know it was just like what can we do to to make you happy you know are you having fun and and that was so cool and I love that.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

So such a cool race would you say because you've raced I mean obviously Mont Blanc marathon Pike's peak it's like you've done a lot of races what is your favorite it would is it series and all out of all the things that you've done or is there something else that would you say is uh top of the list so I think when it comes to experience and race the overall I would say series and all every every part about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

If I had to redo a race I would probably do the Mont Blanc marathon that I did and they did for years prior to me. I remember the year after I did it they ended on the downhill because of I think weather so the year I did it you ended at the top of the mountain. It was so cool. So you ended on an uphill and that's my strength. But the next year because I went back the next year and I it they had to change the course and there wasn't as much uphill and they they ended on a downhill and I don't remember how I did that year but the original Mont Blanc marathon like the original that would probably be my favorite actual like race but I think overall experience is Sears and all and the Goldenleaf half marathon in Aspen that is hands down it's almost like a mini Sierras and all because you start have you ever heard of it?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

No that's why I'm like looking at you like I've never heard of this race.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

So does it still exist? That was that was one oh yeah that was one of my first Colorado races and it starts in snowmass and you run to aspen on the government trail and it is it's just it's just like Sierra Zenal in the sense that the first two miles or so it might be a little less you just run uphill and then you hit the trail and it's just you know flowing hills. It's awesome and it's beautiful it's right it's in end of September and it's right when the leaves change color so it's beautiful and again it's the people that put on the race and they don't care how you do they just enjoy it and they want you to have a good time. And so yeah I would say international sears and all and national is the golden leaf.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Dude I was upset that they got rid of that VK that was an aspenica's uphill or whatever that uh I mean it's a winter race now or March race, but like when it was a summer race um that VK in aspen's perfect like I they need to bring I only I only did the the the winter race and I always did it on um with crampons.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

I never did on skis.

The Teacher Film And Storytelling

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Oh yeah yeah they gotta bring it back as like a as like a straight up like we need more that's like a perfect place for a VK I know TMR just put in a uphill race but yeah we need more like vertical races than the I agree I agree. I know we're limited on time here I want to ask you what a couple more things. One is about the teacher the uh Solomon video I know Solomon TV was always iconic with these Mount Marathon videos or these more about about the athletes like I feel like the teacher um obviously it's very true to your story and who you are as a as a person and an athlete and kind of you know deep dives deeper into the dichotomy of like who you are but I feel like that that helped you know propel and kind of really get your name out there and you know as far as like career wise and things like that for you running wise.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah I mean Solomon did a really good job with those with with all those Solomon movies for sure. And I think they depicted my life pretty pretty well in those where it was like I woke up early and it was still dark out with my headlamp and I'd go out running and I forget I I feel like they might have recorded me running with friends because once or twice a week I run with friends in the morning. And then yeah I go to school and and then I come home and I I I run again if I have time and if I can. But yeah Solomon did a really good job with those videos and they did them in a short amount of time. But yeah. I haven't seen that video in a long I just watched it today.

Trail Running Now And Mentoring

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I watched I mean I watched it like an hour ago before this just to refresh everything for for this interview. All right one last question for you um you said you you know you're talking about the love of the game and how much you love this sport. What do you think of it now? Like it's obviously gotten so professionalized and it continues to grow and change and it seems like there's a lot of like really exciting young up and coming athletes now.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Like what are what are your thoughts on the sport and and kind of where it's at I yeah I mean it definitely I can't decide if it's gotten bigger I mean obviously it's gotten bigger but in my head I I think when I was in that race mode and I was in the in the heat of it I don't feel like I paid much attention to all the races and all the racers and all that I paid I was more into my race and who I was racing against. But I do I feel like there's more and more racers out there. I feel like there's more and more runners and you know I just hope that I just how am I how do I say this? Um I I will I am not gonna lie I am I wish that I was still racing. I wish you know looking back I those were some of the best years of my life and just you know not only the little bit of success I had but also just the experiences. Like I flew around the world and I just you know I have there's a girl in my town who's who was my age when I started like the international race and she you know she was racing in college and she I'm actually going to Zagama next weekend and she's going to race and it's just so cool that he's Sydney yeah yeah she's been on the pot a bunch of times oh nice go go Sydney yeah yeah go Sydney exactly I'm I'm traveling with my eight year old son so I I feel bad leaving him I I I don't think it's a good idea for me to leave him for five hours in the middle of nowhere Spain by himself. So I'm not racing it but you know it's just so cool to see these you know young people and you realize how old you are um racing and and doing these awesome races and you know I just also hope that they are having balance in their life because it can take over and but if it does that's your choice right so um yeah but it's so awesome and what I also like is that and and maybe it was always this way but I love that it's it seems like sponsors are focusing on the all-around athlete and not necessarily just about results and maybe that was just in my head I was terrible at social media and I know that's big for it was big for companies you know they wanted you to post a lot and that was just never my personality and I I think that hurt me in the end with with sponsorships and I never promoted myself you know I was hoping they would come to me which a little bit it happened but it didn't and so I just love when I'm seeing these you know younger new racers they're they're getting sponsorships and they're getting support even if they're not winning every race and I think that's awesome you know because there is more to the sport than just racing and or winning but you know there's so much that goes into it. And um so yeah I think it's awesome and I'm excited to see I've you know I'm I'm going to Zagama next weekend and I'm not racing and I don't have the nerves I would if I was gonna be racing.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

I love that that's so cool. Yeah Sydney Sydney's been on the pod a couple times big fan of hers. Well she'll be on again probably by broken arrow but um yeah that's just so exciting I just love to see like you in this position that you're in like you it's kind of like a mentorship. I do do you like have you mentored other athletes as well besides kind of like Sydney and um you know help give advice to these athletes because that's that's a huge thing uh for young up and coming athletes to you know to talk to someone that's kind of done it all been there you know played the game especially internationally it's a great great resource to have someone like you the problem is I just don't know if I'm a great mentor because I and I could be wrong in saying this but I just I feel like I have a different like mentality than than some people like like I said I will have a beer.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

I won't my one rule is I will never have a beer the night before a race I will never have alcohol that's just my one thing but I think that's more my superstition playing a role but you know the the way I would talk to someone is if you want to eat ice cream the night before do it and I don't know that people agree with me and then I'm like oh my gosh am I giving them the wrong advice blah blah blah but like with Sydney you know she asked me about Zagama and I was like Sydney that was such a long time ago all I know is it's probably gonna rain it's gonna be muddy and it's technical downhill that's all I remember and it's long it's one of the longer marathons you know it just takes longer. I'm just you know my attitude towards racing is like have balance you know that's you know and I think Sydney does a good job with that. I think she works part-time and that's awesome and you know she's so psyched that she's traveling and racing and she loves it. She loves the sport and that's so awesome. And you know I just if anyone asks me I love talking to people about it. But I also feel like I push that idea of balance so much that I'm like oh gosh am I taking away from them and am I telling them not to train and I'm just like ah am I telling them the right thing so I think I just have a different mentality because I don't think there's a lot of racers that started in their early 20s. I feel like a lot of people that race were racing in high school were racing in college and then they went on to the you know the the racing scene and so I think I'm just different. I I could be wrong um but that's just so I just get nervous saying anything.

Closing Thoughts Discount And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Well anybody I think that gets advice for you would be lucky. So it's all good stuff there. I I know we're we're light on time. Stevie thank you so much for coming on this is an amazing conversation. Like I said I this has been you know the highlight of my week to get to have a chat with you learn more about you and to help tell your story. Definitely hope it's not the last chat and uh yeah thank you. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

I'm so flattered that you asked me all these years later. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Yeah no problem. What'd you guys think? Oh man that was a special one I had to get out especially with it being the week of Zagama um this one just meant an absolute ton to me and uh wanted to kick off Zagama week um you know with one of the greats and uh yeah like I said it's just a super special conversation and uh I think Stevie, you know, um you know if we had a hall of fame in our sport which we absolutely should have uh you know as a first ballot hall of famer and in my opinion I think one of the greatest female runners uh to ever do it she paved the way for so many athletes to come um you know kind of come up in the sport and a lot of what we see today you know she she kind of you know paved it forward which is pretty pretty damn cool um guys as a special uh as a special um you know thing for our listeners uh use code steep stuff that's gonna get you 20% off your cart at Cedis uh thank you to our brand partner Cetus for bringing the show to life um and yeah I just want to thank Stevie as well guys you can find her online at Stevie Kramer her Instagram is gonna be linked in the show notes um I definitely think she uh is probably very flattering I think she would love um you know if you guys gave her a follow let her know you know what she let her know what you thought about the episode uh and all that good stuff um thanks for tuning in we've got a lot of cool announcements and things coming down the pipeline uh lots of stuff getting ready for Sun of Pea Scramble U.S. Mountain Running Championship is just a few weeks away we've got broken arrow just less than eight weeks out uh all kinds of fun stuff coming down the pipeline good interviews fun stuff and uh yeah thank you all for tuning in and and following along all good stuff there so appreciate you know