Some Thoughts on Zegama

Zegama-Aizkorri in the rain is supposed to slow people down. Instead, it gave us one of the loudest statements of the year, and I needed a solo mic to process it. The course was wet, muddy, and technical enough to punish every mistake, yet the racing still felt electric on both sides of the field. If you follow trail running, mountain running, skyrunning, or the Golden Trail World Series, this is the kind of weekend that reshapes expectations.

We have to talk about Tove Alexanderson. She didn’t just win Zegama, she smashed the course record and put massive time into athletes who are normally right in the mix. I dig into why her background on technical terrain translates so well, why her finishes look like she emptied the tank every single time, and what her path could look like with big targets like Ledro SkyRace, Quebec Mega Trail, and the bigger season narrative that ends at Sierre-Zinal. The big question I keep coming back to: are we watching a one-year heater, or the start of a truly dominant era?

Then we flip to the men and I make the case that Taylor Stack might be the next great American short-trail star. The podium at Zegama matters, the way he raced matters, and I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling yet. We also hit the Kilian Jornet conversation, what we know about the rough day and the fall, why I’m not panicking, and why I still think he’s a major factor going forward, including Western States.

Listen, share this with a friend who loves the sport, and then leave a review if you want to support the show. After you hear it, what’s your prediction for Tove, Taylor, and Kilian this season?

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Transcript

Solo Hot Takes Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And uh yeah, guys, what is going on? Today I was thinking about doing one of these solo episodes. I haven't done one of these in a while, but it, you know, just reflecting and thinking about Zagama and uh just kind of having some thoughts on the race. I felt like it was a nice little, maybe a fun little thing to do kind of like a solo episode, and uh, you know, put in some hot takes, put in some rants, put in some things you guys might agree with, might not, might not agree with, disagree, whatever. Um, but yeah, just throw down some thoughts on Zagama and then uh throw out some audience questions because I'm kind of curious to see what you guys think on them and uh just uh kind of talk about talk about some of these. Um the first thing I was gonna say as a debrief is like, yo, what a race. So deep. Uh deep in every way. Um obviously Killian was back. We had Toby Alexanderson, which was a kind of a new face on the series, but we undoubtedly could have had a feeling uh that she was gonna do well given her performance um at the short trail in Worlds uh back in last September. Um, lots of mainstays on the Spanish circuit, you know, uh Melanosa, who performed really well, Sarah Alonzo, uh Manuel Morales, who all three of them are more or less um, I guess you could say locals. I don't know how fair that is, but I'd say relative locals. Um, you know, Antonio Martinez Perez, just a lot of Spanish talent there, and just talent in general. Um for those of you who didn't follow along, the race happened last Sunday, May 17th. I know I'm recording this on Wednesday, um, so I'm just getting around to it after kind of thinking about it. Um it was a very wet year this year. I don't know if anybody followed some of the social media around it, but just quite wet, quite muddy, uh, nasty, technical, a course that's just gonna beat you up. And uh kind of crazy that the women's course record fell on a wet year. Um Ninky had established it several years back, Nikki Brinkman, on a dry year. Um I think both men's and women's races delivered. I think they were both super electric. Um, two names that I'm gonna talk about as we get into things are Taylor Stack and Tove Alexanderson. Um we definitely have to address the suite in the room, uh, Tovey Alexanderson. Um I just think that what she did the other day was absolutely astonishing. Um, smashed the course record, ran 408.09, um, destroyed the ghost of Ninky Brinkman by almost nine minutes, and then beat last year's champ, Sarah Alonzo, by over 17 minutes, beat second place uh in Melinosa by 16 minutes. Absolutely crazy. Um yeah, I just think that Tovey, some thoughts on Tovey. I think that she's just kind of in a class all of her own. Um after that performance at Worlds in 2025, so last year at Con Frank, um, and Nelza Gama, it's I think it's safe to say that she's probably one of the best in the world, if not amongst, uh, in that echelon of you know one of the most unbeatable athletes that we have on the stage right now. I'd love to see how she, you know, kind of stacks up against your Graysons in the world, because Grayson was actually the last person that actually beat her. Um love to see how she stacks up against some other uh mainstay athletes in the space as well, but it's kind of crazy. I almost feel not bad, but like, you know, it's gotta be a tough position to be like a Sarah Alonzo or a Yudith wider. You know, Sarah's been beaten twice by her now. Um, Yudith has had some rough goes now, a drop at Worlds and a drop at Nell Zagama this past week. Um, you know, it starts to wonder is is Tobey gonna be like beatable at all in the next few years, or is she just gonna dominate? Um, like I said before, Tobey hasn't lost a race since 2023, uh, which was Worlds at Inspruck. And uh she was second place to now Solomon teammate Grayson, Grayson Murphy. Um and you know, she had a quiet 2024 and then absolutely you know crushed the field at Con Frank uh in the short trail, and now it's a gamma and uh yeah, Hydra Course Records, because I think Tovey's coming, man, and uh it's kind of wild. It's uh exciting to see. Um we I I feel like on the golden trail side, you know, we'll have these these women that kind of establish themselves on the scene. Like we've had Ninky, right? We've had Sophia Lockley, um, we've had quite a few athletes, uh, Maud Mathis, um, you know, that'll have these just outstandingly stellar years. And uh I think we're kind of on on the brink of one right now for uh for Tove, you know, freshly signed with Solomon. Um I mean you guys tell me. I'd be curious, you know, from an audience perspective, like what what do you guys think? Like, I think she's at least the clear favorite to go win Ledro, the Ledro Sky Race. Um, I think, you know, why would she not win Quebec Mega Trail? You know, you gotta remember, like, Tove comes from a a background that is more uh orienteering related. So not a pure trail runner, if you will, uh, so extremely talented on technical terrain. Um, I've known about Tony Tovey for a while. Like, I don't know if you guys have um think back, and I think Golden Trail actually was really good at putting some of this in their in their um marketing uh for the race when they were trying to hype up their athletes, or maybe Solomon did it, I can't remember, but they did kind of throw back to 2020, it was either 2020 or 2021. Um there was this uh where Toby kind of last competed on the Golden Trail scene at the Golden Trail final, which was a stage race in the Azores. Um, you know, think back to like everyone, you know, Jim Walmsley was in this. This was when you had to uh win the golden segment, if you will, in your local area to get to get invited and go to this. And um, you know, that was kind of the last time we had seen Toby on a big stage like that outside of Worlds. Um, and now Worlds is obviously bigger than it's ever been, but when you start to look at, you know, some of the races coming up on, you know, next week we've got Ledro and we've got Quebec Mega Trail, Pitts Alp, and Glacier, you know, these courses all really kind of favor her on from a technical perspective and kind of her technical prowess. Um, so it will be very interesting to see if she's gonna be beatable at any of these. I don't, I don't think she lose whatever she shows up at, I don't think she's gonna lose a race until series and all. And I think that's the question there. Like uh, you know, do you think, and this is another audience question to see what you guys think, um, you know, with all the dominance, is she kind of the next big global star? Um, will Solomon built her into the next goal, you know, global star? If she wins Ledro, she wins Quebec Mega Trail, she wins Pilz Alpin, or at least a few of those, you know, in addition to the course record at Zagama, you know, what does that look like in several months' time? I mean, you know, does she go on a run and win the Golden Trail World Series? Is she going to be a global star? Um, and then, you know, I I don't know. I and I think from the star perspective, I think it's interesting. Like I think Toby Tovey is very interesting. Um, you know, when she finishes these races and crosses the finish line, you could tell she's just like completely destroyed. You know, she doesn't look fresh at all. She like absolutely destroys herself. Um and I I think that's like a cool signature, you know. I think that's what makes her, you know, interesting. Uh she doesn't look fresh at all. She looks completely, you know, like she gives 150% of herself into this. And I just think that's really cool. And I think that'll be um, you know, I think that's part of the star building. And I I think uh sim saying I think a lot, but yeah, I think there's there's a lot to this. And uh you guys let me know. I'd love to hear in the show notes. Like, do you think Tovey is gonna be kind of the next big thing, the next global star, and and what does that look like? I know she's not confirmed yet for series and all, um, but I would find this really interesting. I mean, the best stat that we've got here um is you know, only Killian and Stevie Kramer have won Zagama and series and all in the same year. So can Tove go on to make history? Like what is that gonna look like um and go to series and all and win? If she can do that, I mean she puts herself, you know, already in the all-time great category because only two other athletes have ever done that. Um it's gonna be really interesting to see. But I'd love to hear in the show notes your guys' thoughts on Tove. Like, do you do you think that this is this is our next big trail running, mountain running, golden trail sales series star, or do you think you know this might be a one-year thing? You know, it's really been interesting, and I mentioned this before. You know, we've got you know, athletes will kind of pop onto the scene for a year or two, like Ninky Brinkman. Um, and Ninky, I think, will come back this year, from what I've heard. Um, but Ninky, Judith, Judith White is is a kind of a mainstay on the series, but you know, has had maybe one or two years of extreme dominance. She's still an amazing podium contender, but at the same time, it's not that dominant dominance that we've seen from Tovey. Um, Sophia Lockley had had captured that maybe in like the 2023 kind of uh year. Um will she get back to that? Um so yeah, this this kind of dominant athlete on the Golden Trail World Series. And uh and this kind of leads up to my next person. Um what do you guys think about Taylor Stack, man? How good, I don't think we have any idea how good Taylor Stack is. I think Taylor Stack might be the chosen one, man, at least for the Americans. Um and when I say the chosen one, I mean like, you know, outside of Joseph Gray long ago, and you know, maybe um, you know, uh I would say maybe a 2019 Sage Canada, who's had success at Pike's Peak in some of the Golden Trail series. I'm remember, I'm looking at this from the lens of who is our next big international American star that's kind of on the short trail scene. And uh, you know, so you've looked at Joe Gray from long ago, you maybe Eli Hemming. Um, you know, there was a time there where I thought Eli Hemming was like our next big American superstar from uh, at least from the Golden Trail series perspective, had a ton of success in 2022 and 2023, second place uh at Marathon du Mont Blanc, um, could never get over the hump at Ceres and all, never raced a gamma, at least I don't think he did. Um, had had some great races at Pike's Peak, was on the podium there, but never quite, you know, kind of crossed that threshold into like what Patrick is or what El Housin is. And I think I I don't think we know how good Taylor Stack is yet. Um I mean that in like the most respectful and best way possible. Um I'm just gonna give you guys a story. I had Cade Michael on the podcast. You guys might uh and you should know. If you don't know who Cade Michael is, give him a follow. If you don't already, interesting character. Um, a human I respect immensely in our sport. And um, you know, long ago I had Cade on and he he was talking about Taylor. And one of the stories that he said is that one of the he he described Taylor as one of the most competitive humans you're ever gonna meet. Um like the type of person that like is if he's playing you in a board game, uh, is there to destroy you. And Taylor comes off as like this very kind, just non-assuming, uh just humble human. Um, but I I've never stood on a start line with him before, but I think for anybody who has and maybe raised him or thrown down, I think Taylor kind of has all of these tools um to to that make him really good and and grow and possibly great. Um so yeah, I I think from from the stories I've heard from Cade to his competitors in college and people that have spoken about him, and it's been just really interesting and cool to see Taylor just get better and better and better year after year. Um, so my my answer to the question of do we know how good Taylor's stack is, is uh I don't think we know yet because I don't think we've we've even come close to understanding or finding his ceiling yet. Um I'm just gonna give you some stats on what he did this past weekend. I mean, the dude beat two former Zagama champions, Manu Morales, who's one of the best downhillers on the planet. Taylor passed him in the final miles to get on that podium in the third place. Um so you know he's got the dog in him. He beat Remy Bonet, who we all know who Remy is, the you know, 2026 world or 2025 world mountain running uphill champion in the vertical, uh, you know, has won the Golden Trail series numerous times. 2028 champion or 20 uh 18 champion of Zagama, he beat our Antonio Martinez Perez, who's a four-time OCC podium finisher, and has been as high as second place. Um, Roberto DeLorenzi, Robert Kemboy, oh, and Killian Journette. He beat Killian this weekend. Obviously, Killian didn't have the race he wanted, and we'll talk about Killian. Um, but I think Taylor is just absolutely picked up where he left off in 2025. I mean, guys, if you didn't follow him on the scene last year, fourth at the Golden Trail Series Final at Ledro, third at Pitts Alpin Glacier, so that was his highest uh finish last year, twelfth at series and all, as well as the top American. And remember, Christian Allen was in that field too. There was a lot of damn good Americans on that field, um, or in that field, and then sixth at the broken arrow 23K. So I think he's got, I mean, if we're looking at the stats outside of like your 2013 to maybe 2016 Joseph Gray, who wasn't really big on the Golden Trail World Series races other than series and all, uh, look at your history books. He's had some epic battles with Killian back in the day. It might have been earlier than that, it might have been 2012 to the 2017 era. Um had some epic battles outside of Joe, outside of Eli, who was second in Mount Marathon, uh or Marathon du Mont Blanc in 2023, uh, and then maybe a 2019 Sage Kennedy who's had second place at Pike's Peak. I think that's the best any American male has finished in a race, uh in a golden trail race, um, in in a very long time, especially something as historic and prestigious as Sagama. So I think that he needs to get some respect and some flowers for that. Um I think that, I don't know, I think my prediction is that he's gonna be, I think he's gonna be one of the American greats. I think he's on his way, and uh I think it's very exciting to see. Um one of the things, and I'm not just saying that, I think there's there's a few aspects and things that we look at when we see an athlete like Taylor. Um, you know, there's athletes that have all the talent in the world, and I would take like your Mason Copies of the world who are extremely talented. I would even say Christian Allen is probably out in when you're looking at American men. I know Dan Kurtz would debate me under the table on this because he's funny with the talent situation, but I think Dan Kurtz is one of the most talented men in our sport. I think Christian Allen is one of the most talented men in our sport. I think what separates Taylor as of right now is not just talent. I think it's the work ethic. I think it's the smart, solid training and consistent training. I believe he's coached by uh David Rose, and it seems like that's clicking really well. And I think above all else, what I think makes Taylor different is is this is what's between the ears. It's this mental component. Um, like going back to the story Kate is talking about, about his um, you know, competitive prowess and who he is as a competitor, but to go and pass Manu Morales in the final miles of Zagama, a race that Manu has won on his home turf, and uh on a course that Taylor has never been on before, on a world stage where in a in a marathon long plus course with 9,000 feet of vertical, when you're completely trashed, um, dude, Taylor's got the dog in him. And I really like to see that. Like, that is what you're looking for. Someone that has all of the tools. Uh, and you know, he's done it many times and he just seems to be picking up where he left off last year and improving and improving and improving. And that's what we want to see. Like, this is super exciting. Um, you know, I I I think he might be the next big American name, which is I think like really freaking cool. Um and he's just so young, too. Very young guy. It seems like he downloads this information from every race and adjusts. Um, I mean, we saw it last year. You know, any person would have had, you know how hard it is? Uh I mean, I don't think people understand. Like to go from the podium of Plitz Alpin Glacier and then the following week get become the top American at series and all, twelfth place overall, and the top American. Um, to be able to double like that, I think is absolutely insane. It just speaks to um the fact that he can travel really well, he can go overseas and handle a lot of that adversity, being away from home, not racing on home course, um, and uh you know, making all those little adjustments to have success. And um, yeah, I'm gonna throw out my prediction and now I think he's the American-chosen one. I mean, we'll see. But uh, my prediction for Taylor Stack by the end of the year, I'd love to see what your guys' thoughts are. What do you think is gonna happen? Um, my prediction is uh by the end of the 2026 season, he's either I think he's gonna take that step forward. Don't be surprised if the kid goes and wins like Plitz Alpin Glacier or gets on the podium, if not wins like the Golden Trail final. I think he's gonna do very well at series and all. Um he has, and as we saw in this race, all of the talent now to win these races. I think he's that kind of guy to be able to absolutely close the gap on your El Housines and your your I think he, I mean, he might have already beaten Philemon in a race. I don't know. I don't know. It's been I don't know how much overlap there is, but Philemon's been beaten on and has been beaten on American soil. Um so I think the gap there is is smaller than you think um between like the American kind of our our top American contingent and some of these top front guys at like the Golden Trail, um like your El Housines, your your Patricks of the World, your Philemons. I think I think Taylor closes that gap by the end of the year, um, or even maybe in the next year, and um that's our that's our dude right there. So and I want to see more. You know, I'm looking really forward to seeing like this contingent of American men is is killing it. Like Christian Allen just won a big 50K overseas this year or over this this past weekend. Uh I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. Uh big UTMB race, hoping he's gonna be back into the fray. Uh we've got Mason Copey coming up, um, you know, David Norris. A lot of these like young cats uh from the worlds team last year, I think are gonna be coming up. And you know, Dan Kurtz as well is another one. That's that's a name I can't stop talking about. Um I think these these young, really talented American men are gonna be making on. And then more. There's gonna be more of them that we've never even heard of uh popping onto the scene this year, and it's gonna be just even more fun to talk about. Um I do want to talk a little bit about Killian and see what your guys' thoughts are on that. I've seen a lot of stuff online um about the Killian situation. I I for one am still very hopeful. Um, I don't really think that I think it was kind of a fluke. Um from what I understand and from talking to people in the race plus what we've kind of seen on social media, um, I don't think there's any kind of cause for alarm on the Killian front. I think he just had a kind of a bad race and fell, um, from what I've understood. One of the things I gotta say, I respect the hell out of Killian. Dude doesn't go on social media and start uh and starts like talking like, oh, I had a bad race, and oh um, you know, I was in pain or oh, I fell. He doesn't make any excuses. And I really respect that. You know, you'll meet a lot of athletes that make excuses for for what happens on their day. Um, and that's fine too. Everybody copes in their own way, but one of the things I massively respect about Killian is he could have very well talked about the things that went wrong in his race, but rather chose to talk about the things that went right and how he was able to enjoy the course, enjoy the day, and talk about, you know, just some of the highlights of the of the things that happened when he was there. Um I think he was fourth somewhere in that range to to the top. We all know Killian's not as good of a descender as he is a climber, but still has the ability to win on the descent, no doubt about that. I mean, given the fact that the man is 11 and 2 on on that course, and when I like when I say 11 and 2, like 11 wins and has only ever lost twice. Um and it seems like when he has his epic blow ups, they're really epic. Like this is very evident last year, um, kind of in the broken arrow ascent, we saw the same thing where he kind of blew up a little bit and finished way far back than the expectations. He doesn't really hold on, he kind of just mentally quits. Um, I don't know what that is. Maybe he just kind of maybe I don't know. It's very strange. It's either like very high in the field or or very um or very far back. Um, so I don't know, everybody's style is a little bit different. He doesn't it seems like when the fight is over, he just he's he's accepting and kind of backs off. Um but man, can I just give so much respect to that dude to be able to uh you know, even still finish and not drop out and still finish the race? So yeah, I think believe from what I understand, he fell um and maybe did something to his back or whatnot, kind of on the descent, um, or at least somewhere in that range. And uh, you know, rather than drop out, he chose to finish. I think he still is probably the front runner for series and all this year. Um, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him do really well at Western States. I hope he's not. I don't think he's injured. He didn't really allude to that or talk about that. Um, but I would still hope to see him out at Western States and and I would still guess that he's probably gonna be um on the podium, if not in in strong contention for a series and all. I think what happened has nothing to do with father time. I think it just has was just a misfortunate event and it just kind of is what it is. Um, you know, we all have bad races, and Killian, uh, as much as he's always looked superhuman, uh, I think at this point in time, um, you know, just kind of showed his humanity. And that's cool, you know, all good. Um, so yeah, that's kind of my take on Killian, uh Taylor Stack, and and Tovey. I don't think there's any more to kind of talk about on them. Um, this has me very excited for what's gonna happen with the rest of the Golden Trail series season. I I think there's a lot of really, I mean, really strong, exciting things to be stoked on. Um, I'd say from the American contingent for the American fans listening to this, I mean, man, you gotta tune in. Like this is uh, you know, we're gonna see Taylor Stack, Cena Peterson. Big shout out to her for competing and and representing the Stars and Stripes and giving it her all. She had a great finish. I think she was top top 25, somewhere in that range. Nicholas Turco, who's another one. Um, you know, he went over and represented. I think given the circumstances that we Don't have a Golden Trail Series race in the United States this year. It's going to make it a little harder for the American contingent, but I do think more athletes will be at these one-off races. I like we do have a lot of athletes on the American side confirmed for races like series and all. I do know David Norris will be competing at the uh some of the um the races in I believe it might be the Japan and China races. I know he's going to be competing later in the season at a bunch of them. So we'll expect to see him. Um, you know, he's gonna be great out there, reigning 2025 US mountain raining champion. Um yeah, guys a beast. So I think there's a lot to be excited for from the US fan base and reasons to tune in and kind of you know cheer on these great American athletes. Um and then even, you know, just a as a as a fan uh storyline-wise on the international side, like, dude, to see Tovey, like if Tovey really does have the year that she might very well have after Zagama, like that's gonna be really fun to tune into. Um, I heard a lot of uh people, I I actually didn't wake up to to tune into Zagama. I think it was like one o'clock in the morning on Sunday, something like that, uh, US Mountain Time. So I did not tune in that way. I was kind of following, you know, in the early hours on my phone. Um, but I do know there was some issues there with people uh being really upset that it wasn't on Eurocast or something to the degree to the degree of that. So I hope that Golden Trail can kind of do better with um, you know, getting this out. Because I know Broken Arrow, for instance, last year had been on, I believe it was HBO of Max, and we were able to watch it in a lot of different ways. So I hope that we can have something like that for some of the races, maybe at least series and all this year. Um, or maybe Quebec Mega Trail, you know, given that it's gonna be a North American side. So that's interesting to tune into. Um, but yeah, I think there's a lot to be excited for, and I think there's uh just so much um, you know, to talk about. I'm gonna have Rachel to my check back on next week. I actually have to travel uh this weekend for some family stuff, but I will have Rachel to my check back on, and we're gonna do like a whole breakdown of Zagama talking about the results. We're gonna talk about a lot of the results from different sky running races and just stuff that we haven't caught up on um from a because she's been uh out internationally doing her thing, um, and now I gotta travel. So we'll be catching up next week on all the good stuff uh for what's happening in our sport. And I just really appreciate you guys for tuning in and thanks for listening. I haven't done a one-off one of these, like where it's just me kind of chotting into the uh chatting into the ether in a long time. I'm actually semi-impressed. I did this for about 25 minutes. So uh hats off to me. But thanks for tuning in. Uh, love you guys. Thank you so much. And um, yeah, I want to hear from these audience questions. Like, what do you guys think? Uh put them in the show notes. Like, what do you think about Taylor Stack? Is he is he the next great American hope? Um, what is about Tovey Alexanderson? Like, is she gonna go on? And like, do you what's your prediction? Do you think she's gonna be, you know, the next big thing? Um, do you think she'll go win series and all this year? Do you think uh this is a one off? Like, what are your thoughts on that? And then what do you think about Killian? I think it's just I think it's just was just kind of a one off thing, but has Father Time caught Killian? I hate to say that. That's a weird thought. Um, but yeah, let me know what you guys think about this. Thanks for tuning in. I appreciate it.