The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Sunapee Scramble Race Companion
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Sunapee is the kind of short trail race that exposes everything you skipped in training. Two loops. Steep ski-area grades. A second lap that turns sloppy and technical. And if the forecast holds, wet rock, roots, and mud that can rip shoes right off your feet. That’s why we’re so fired up for the Sunapee Scramble and the US Mountain Running Championships, where a national title and Team USA selection spots are on the line.
We walk through the course in plain language, then get specific about what actually wins here: when to push the first climb, why patience matters before the second loop, and how East Coast terrain changes the game for athletes coming from smoother, faster trails. We also dig into the “complete runner” trend in mountain running, where pure aerobic engine is not enough and technical descending skill plus race-day decision-making can flip the results in minutes.
Then we name names. We talk women’s contenders and the wide-open opportunity created by who’s not on the start list, plus the men’s field with proven killers, risky front-runners, and a few dark horses who could turn this into a breakout performance. We also touch on prize money and what it means for sustainable growth in professional trail running.
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Run Talk And Race Preview Setup
SPEAKER_01Steve Taylor.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. What's up, bud? Thanks for having me back. I'm doing well. I'm uh feeling alive after our run a few uh not minutes ago, but in the last hour. There's very campaigns of us. We do it with a little run and then we do a podcast after. Yeah, I know. I'm just waiting to deadlift with you next. And then are we going to shoot some TRT? Yeah, are we are we going bow hunting after this? Because I'm getting really excited. I it seems like we're in a suburban neighborhood, so that is a liability.
SPEAKER_01Um well, first of all, we're here for the Son of Peace Scramble, but before we get going, how are you doing, man?
SPEAKER_00I've been doing well. I was uh I had a meeting last night and I was just telling the people in the group, because we do a little wellness check every uh every month, and I was like, this is probably the most in control of my life I've felt in quite some time, which is a nice change of pace. I feel like everyone kind of goes through the motions where things get uh really out of hand and then you kind of get to finally get to come down off that peak and get to enjoy life a little bit. And I feel like I'm sitting in that nice uh in-between uh phase where everything's just kind of going smoothly right now. Dude, I like that. I like that.
SPEAKER_01How's everything going for you? It's good. It's good hanging in there, uh, getting ready for I guess we're about to go into I guess start a I guess I'm I guess this week I'll start like a serious training block for I guess July and August racing. So a block of that, which I'm super excited for. I haven't outraced since September. Ooh. August. And what's on the calendar again?
SPEAKER_00Um do you not want to reveal this information yet?
SPEAKER_01I don't think I've actually said anything yet. I'll keep it. I'm gonna keep it close to the vest. Okay. And then talk about it. Uh well, I mean, you know, but I'll keep it close to the vest for now and then uh I'll start. I guess I'll start talking about it as we get closer. Gotcha. I don't have high expectations, but we'll we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I will say for whenever people find out, be scared. Be very, very scared. Oh, I don't know, dude. My climbing's got a long way to go. But we are getting there. Uh we'll we'll see. I think the run that we had proves otherwise, but you know what? Just have the confidence, man. You've got you've got everything in place, and I can tell the training's falling into place even if your coach is cracking the whip on you a little bit. Shout out to Michelina.
SPEAKER_01Well, dude, I'm so excited to have you back for a Sunpee Scramble pre-race interview. Well, not pre-race interview, a Sunpee Scramble race preview episode.
SPEAKER_00Maybe in the future it'll it'll be a pre-race interview.
SPEAKER_01I know I feel like, dude, like earlier in the year we were talking about um, you know, going out to I I mean, originally I had Cirque Series Canon on my on my schedule, but uh things got turned around. But uh I know we had talked about potentially doing a race in the Northeast, and that was the one that was one of the ones that we're we're eyeing. But um damn, does time go by fast, and here we are, we're already in June, and we're you know, the US Mountain Running Championship is a weird one, especially like for me, it's it's always like the proverbial season opener, you know, where everybody who's kind of in the scene um that's gonna be you know competitive more or less is gonna be at this. Excuse me. This is a weird year though, you know, this is in between year. We're not sending a team to worlds. Um, this is gonna be a U.S. selection race for the Defy Decalore, which will be the WMRA Uphill and uh Mountain Classic Championships that'll take place in October. Um so we are gonna be selecting a USA team for uh athletes to represent Team USA, but it it's it doesn't have worlds implications. So we're missing a few faces, but it's still gonna be damn, I'll be damned that this is not like a super competitive race. I mean, it's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_00I I think Sonope Scramble is gonna be one of those races year in, year out, even if even if this is not the main uh world mountain running championships that uh people are thinking about and getting prepared for every two years, this is still gonna be a race where obviously it's a selection race again this year, but people are gonna prepare going into the next year because I'm gonna be operating, and I'm sure all of them are operating on the same idea that this is going to be a selection race going into that because again, Tom Hooper puts on an excellent race, knows how to put his name out there so that it does become a selection race for all the important teams. And so I think even if it's just a confidence-building year, you're getting your eyes on course for the first time and you want to get a little experience. I think we're gonna see some lesser-known people out there that are trying to start making, trying to start making name for themselves, and they are going to try and put in a good effort. And we're also gonna see some familiar names out there that know how to drop a fast time on this course.
SPEAKER_01Big time, big time. Yeah, I feel like this is, I don't know. This is why the US Muntain Running Championship gets me excited, is because, you know, in Ultra Trail, generally you've got, I mean, and I'd say here, we generally have an idea. I've got a good idea who who's gonna make the team, but I think in short trail, there's just such a deeper selection of athletes that can win the race that are coming from, you know, the division one through three college ranks that, you know, could potentially play upset. And we'll we'll get to those names in a little bit. But I do think that the pool is deeper. And uh yeah, I mean, I think this is you gotta remember too what we're selecting for in the sense I think Sunope makes the most sense. Um one, because it is a great equalizer, man. This is not a track meet. This is this is a much while it is a very fast race and a fast course, uh, and the fittest men and women generally will win. I think the technicality and I think the weather will play a factor in maybe being a bit more of an equalizer for some of those athletes with the higher aerobic engines, um, you know, versus the athletes that can really survive on more technical terrain.
SPEAKER_00I think it's I I I think it's also easy to say for a race that's under 10 miles that aerobic capacity and pure running skill is going to be the thing that wins out. And I think when you look at circles, skill's a great word. Yeah, skill is a great word, especially as someone who comes from uh a sport that has a little the basis for talent often comes from skill less so than aerobic capacity. But that being said, there is a lot to be stated around people who are gonna have one familiarity with the course, sort of like we were talking about with Zagama. But um it's not just who's the fastest runner out there. If that were the case, uh, you know, any road marathon or any um fast college athlete could come in and throw down a good time. And I think there is the possibility for that. But again, like you said, these the descents on this course and the second loop on this course alone is going to provide enough of a challenge and an equalizer that I think that it mixes up the pe the true mountain runners within that the field. It's very true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and this is why I don't know, I kind of debated Tom on this because he and I had this conversation. He's very um, and I think he might be right to an extent, but he's very under the idea that a college athlete or someone coming from the college rankings is going to do extremely well. What's your definition of well? Win the race, get on the team. It's hard to say, but I do think, man, even I think there's levels to this game, and I think when it comes to Sunope, there is skill in this course. If you've been on the course, if you've raced on the course before, you've an idea on all these different little places where you can make moves and maybe exploit moves or know where guys are gonna blow up, you know. Like for instance, I had a great conversation with Dan this morning, Dan Kurtz, who's you know one of the outright favorites to win this race. And Dan is just don't give his ego a boost. He's an encyclopedia of knowledge and he just knows the course so intimately on where to make moves, where to kind of show off maybe some of those improvements from 2025. Um yeah, I whereas like a college athlete, I think it's gonna be much harder in my opinion. If this was a Cirque series race, if this was one of the easier Cirque Series courses, uh, I'd say it's a different conversation, especially something more in the mountain west that's more runnable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but for a course like this, it is gonna be a slower, a little bit slower, a little bit harder. Um, so yeah, it's gonna be so fun to follow, dude.
SPEAKER_00And I to the point of your you bringing up Dan, I I texted you this, but there is a uh a mental video that just runs through my head uh whenever I think about this race. And I believe it was from two or three years ago. I can't remember exactly, but it's just uh there are highlights of uh all the top runners coming through on the second downhill. And I just I have this image of Dan Kurtz running maybe the ballsiest downhill I've ever seen. Um it's nothing nothing scary. It's just I've never seen anyone just use their legs so efficiently to run so freaking hard on a downhill uh that this is again something we're gonna talk about. East Coast, East Coast uh technicality is very different than the West Coast and Mountain West technicality. We're talking sloppy, roody, messy uh stuff that even skilled people on the rocky technicality of the high alpine out here aren't gonna be super familiar with because you also have to factor in the level of moisture that's gonna be over there as well.
SPEAKER_01The humidity, dude. The humidity, the bugs, and this is gonna, I mean, this is it's actually kind of flows over from our conversation with Zagama for the dry year versus wet year conversation. I like I said, I was on the phone with Dan this morning. We were talking about the weather, and the this is gonna be a wet year, more or less. I would say the prediction is for it to be a wet year, just like last year. Slippery, muddy. I mean, I can't remember if it was David Norris. I think it was David Norris, who was last year's 2025 Mount U.S. Mountain Running Champion, lost his shoe at one point in time in the mud, and that happened to a few athletes. So you gotta be ready for uh the shoes to come off, for uh, you know, just get ready to to fall gracefully in some of those sections, especially the glades. The glades is always really a fun section. Um, yeah, there's this is just an the ultimate equalizer, of course, is that it's just gonna beat your ass.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I mean, I I I think we're in for a fun day. Uh, I mean, if anyone got the chance to read over uh James's post the other day, I think uh Christian is already belaboring the the fact that there is some rain in the forecast for this weekend, but we we believe in you slim. So hopefully it's not too uh not too treacherous out there for you.
SPEAKER_01You know, Christian's like so like red, white, and blue kind of deal, like with the mullet and the mustache. I feel like we just have to give him a de facto spot.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. He looks like the physical embodiment of an American flag. I, you know, there's no denying that uh if you are looking for the USA to do perform well at WMRAs, um, he's the person aesthetically that should be representing the uh the US in that regard. But it's also one of the fastest uphills. I mean, the mullet alone could could stand it could tow the line for us.
SPEAKER_01You know what would be a cool like ACG Nike commercial? I was just thinking about this. They should do like it's some arrow, like uh aerodynamics of like Slim's mullet.
SPEAKER_02How sick would dude, I just gave it to me. Yeah, dude, how sick would that be? I think that would be hilarious.
SPEAKER_00Look, this you know, ACG, you can we'll send you an invoice later. Don't worry. That's right. That's right. Listen, that was probably the best idea they've gotten in a while.
SPEAKER_01We're not even gonna talk about gorge then.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
Sunapee Course Layout And Key Sections
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about the course. Okay, great. 9.4 miles, uh roughly 3,249 feet of elevation game. For those who are unfamiliar with this course, it and I believe we said this already, it is a two-loop course. First loop is a bit shorter, second loop's a bit longer. The first loop has, to my understanding, a great bit more service road on it, but significantly steeper. So think of ski resort, that's 17 to 18% cat track, that's just really hard to run on, really hard to run fast on. Um, and that's gonna be a great equalizer because that's gonna separate the field a great do or great amount. And then the second loop is gonna be it goes into a much more technical climb towards the top, and uh you'll kind of go over, I guess you could call it Mount Sunnepe, would probably be the best way to say it. Yeah. Uh, into a smoking fast descent. And uh yeah, it's uh I'd say the best way to describe the course. Anything you think I missed? I know you studied the course a bit more intimately than I did.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I spent some time over the weekend rewatching some of the highlights and the live stream from the last two years, uh, just kind of get getting familiar with it. Obviously, this is a looped course. Everything you stated is right on the nose. That first loop, especially on the uphill, is going to be very service road heavy, and it's really gonna favor the people who are pure speed, have that, have that built-in experience of doing track, cross-country type workouts, and are comfortable, you know, laying down some hard work with less technical terrain. The second that we start coming down Mount Sunope, that's where this is gonna start to favor the true mountain runners, and that's where it's gonna test people who may be a little less familiar on dicey footing or haven't spent quite as much time on trail and have been doing a lot of their workouts on the road, on the track, or even just some smooth, uh, smooth gravel trails as well. So I think uh there is an area for that type of runner to really excel. Um, we were talking about this on a run. There's there's runner, there's gonna be runners like Remy Benet who just know how to hammer an uphill and they're hoping to put in a big gap on that initial climb, and then they're holding on on the descent and they hope they can repeat the same thing on the second climb. But it does look like that after watching this live stream, it does, it does begin to favor people. As soon as you hit that summit the first time, you know, all bets are off on what your what your training has looked like prior to uh prior to the race, uh, in that if you've been focusing on that smooth stuff, you better hope that you've got some technical skill on that downhill. It's very true.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of climbing in this race. I mean, in the sense where this is like a I think the decisive moves, uh I mean, this is to me, I think the decisive moves are actually going to be made on the climb. I think on the second climb. Um, somewhere near that top is where a lot of moves were made last year. It's where David Norris was able, he was way not way back, I don't think that's the right way to say it, but he was a bit further back and was able to run through the field as guys were kind of starting to fade. At one point in time, Taylor Stack was in commanding lead of that race. Mason made a move and blew up, still was able to finish second. Taylor was right there in third, but kind of suffering a little bit. And Norris made his move. David Norris to me was a bit of an anomaly last year. I think you got to remember who he is Alaskan-born mountain runner and just insanely good on that type of technical terrain. Very good at the climb hiking, run the run hiking kind of deal. Um, like I said, a bit of an anomaly. Like, whereas like I feel like I understand Dan and Christian and Mason and some of the guys up front a little bit more, same with Courtney Coppinger and Taylor Tuttle. Um, some of the women that'll be in the front, they're a little bit easier to kind of fall understand. Whereas like last year, when you're looking at some of the winners, like Anna Gibson, for instance, like they call her the motor, dude, because she is just such a strong uphill athlete, um, so fast. Um, and equally found her way to be balanced on the descent. So I think that the race is going to be one on the climbs, in my opinion. I think you could biff it and lose it on the descent if you're not careful enough. Um, but it did seem to favor athletes for on some of the climbs and kind of the most balanced athletes. Because I'd say Mason is probably one of the best pure climbers in the in this area, um, but was able to make himself well rounded enough to hold off on the descents and get much better on the descents. Same with Taylor. You're looking at some of the more balanced guys. Cam Cam had great success last year. Cam Smith won't be returning this year, but had a lot of success when it came to the climbing side. Um, and on the women's side as well. Lauren Gregory is one of the better uh female downhillers, probably one of the best downhillers in that field last year, whereas Allie is a better climber. So you get to see people's uh, I guess you could say, exploit some of their weaknesses versus um strengths. Yeah.
Why Skill Beats Pure Speed
SPEAKER_01The interesting thing though that I'm starting to see as this sport is evolving is that the athletes are evolving with it. Like uh, for instance, I had a great conversation with Remy LaRue in the lead up to this race, and Remy has always been cognizant that he's a phenomenal climber, but maybe lacked a little bit more on the technical descending side. And so he spent a lot of time in this offseason really working on his technical descendant. He wanted to improve there uh to make himself more balanced. And and you know, it took, you know, some, I don't know, 15, 20th place finishes in some of the Golden Trail series races to where he he kind of became very aware of that. Um, and the same similar thing with Dan Kurtz. We know Dan Kurtz to be one of the best downhillers on planet Earth. It's kind of crazy to be able to say that, but it's it's very true. He's he's an absolute insane downhiller.
SPEAKER_00What a trophy to put on your wall, too.
SPEAKER_01Um like I I would like to see Dan against some of the like other like Manu Morales, right? Who's another one of the best like technical downhillers on the planet? Um, but anyway, Dan Dan really has made it um even a very just a big thing of his to get better on the on the climbing and just become more well balanced. And he's uh started working with Jack Kenzel, who is kind of a mad scientist of coaches, if you will. And um, you know, uh I'd say a big reason as to why Caleb did so well at Western states. And you know, Jack has been an amazing athlete on his end, um, and he's just kind of has some some strong things that he's figured out, which is pretty cool. And so um, yeah, it's gonna be very interesting. I think you can't be just a a a one-trick pony in the sport anymore. You have to be very ball balanced, and uh, it's the well-balanced, the most well-balanced athlete that's gonna win this race.
SPEAKER_00I I was gonna say, and I think uh something in there where I I'm noticing an overlap in uh some of the types of runners that you're talking about. It seems like the people that have I think there is something to what Tom is saying about these college athletes that are that could potentially come out and show up and uh really do something great on a day like this that are, you know, that that have that skill and the talent built in from years of track and uh and cross-country training, but it's the people that have that background, but also have had long-term exposure to the trail. Obviously, we brought up Anna Gibson. Um, she is someone that not only has that experience and the hard work of building speed on the track, building speed in on the cross-country course and in a program like that, but has been a lifelong outdoors person. Lauren Gregory, born in Fort Collins, uh, born or raised in Fort Collins, I should say, um, but also had that exposure to the outdoors and just that familiarity and comfort because I've met I've met some incredibly talented runners who net didn't get into trail until their mid-20s and they're still figuring it out and they're still and they're still learning the ups and downs of the technicality of the running. And so I think it's I think it's intriguing the field that has gathered here because year over year it looks like you're we're seeing a lot of athletes that are former D1 uh to former D3 athletes that are showing up to get their name out there. And there's a chance that someone could do something great, but do they have that comfort on the trail? And it sounds like all the big names that we're talking about, if they didn't have that comfort, someone like Remy, they understood what they need to work on now, and they're trying to close that gap between their knowledge of, okay, I've got the base of hard work. Now I need the base of technic technical knowledge, and how do I close that? And so they're they're actively putting in the work on that. And sometimes with these new phases, they know it right off the bat, but you don't know what you don't know until you're tested.
Confidence And The Mental Edge
SPEAKER_00Ooh, I like that.
SPEAKER_01You're right, and it's like it goes to we're gonna see, you know, this was a great conversation that you and I had actually had in the with Zagama, and then I kind of carried it over into my conversation with with um Taylor Stack. Is this this you can you could have improved a ton, but what's going on between the ears? How is the mental space? And um, you know, I felt like this podcast will come out, but I had a great conversation with Dan Kurtz. I feel like he's ready to go put on a performance. And and one of the things that he said, and I just loved hearing it, he goes, you know, a lot of people are are kind of, you know, ner this is just me some summarizing it, but like he's like a lot of people are nervous to race Christian or nervous to race uh um, you know, maybe Mason. But he's like, I think I'm pretty damn hard to race on this course. And I was like, dude, there you go. Like that's that's the headspace I want to see some of these athletes in is believing that they can win. And I think that's that was something I really took away from Taylor's conversation is this mental switch where you're able to like flip things and like truly believe that you can you can do this. And um, you might have all the skills, but if you don't put them all together um between the ears, then it's not gonna happen for you. Yeah, I think Coppinger's another one. I felt like she in my conversation with her yesterday, very confident, very strong, very ready to be uh a champion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think in the last, and I'm sorry, I'm saying I think to ad nauseum, but uh I I really believe that there's a few different mentalities that lead to a successful champion or a successful race day. And one of those is just understanding that, you know, whether there be other threats on the course that I am a threat, or just understanding the opportunity and just saying, wow, what a gift it is to be out there and be able to get to race these people and see how I stack up. I think having that mentality, I mean, obviously there was a lot of coverage around Ranch Rachel Entrick's mentality at Coca-Dona where she was like, Why not me? I think that's a really fascinating way uh psychology to take on and say, why not me? You know, why not what you know, what a what a great opportunity to get out there and race some of the best in the people. Someone like Drew Holman says that uh very regularly. And then I think Taylor is right up there with the right attitude going, other people should be scared to race me, or you know, other people should be viewing me as the challenge out there. And I think all of those are what takes what it takes to be really successful in this type of arena. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there's something else to be said too, and this is something I I've just really started picking up on in understanding my own game, but also like really spending time talking to Mason, talking to Taylor, talking to athletes like Dan. And I don't I don't necessarily and I'd say Courtney Coppinger is another good example. I still haven't had Taylor Tuttle on for a pre-race interview, but just this the best athletes in our sport. There's a lot, and like this sounds so like like weird to say, but like there is levels to this game. And this is where I will say there is a separation from the college students, the college athletes, to someone like your Christian Allen, your Dan Kurtz, your Mason Copey. Um the separation really comes in in the levels where you might have the fitness, but there's still a mental game to this, to having the confidence to be able to make a move on someone like Dan, make a move on someone like Christian, thinking that like, you know, uh trying not to blow yourself up or going for it. Um, and I think that's like the last level to the game is like having that mental understanding and like having the whole thing put together. Uh fitness is giant, obviously a giant component, right? You want to always be uh trying to you know be the fittest person showing up in the start line, but it's not always the fittest person in the start line that wins the race, dude. It's usually what's between the ears. Uh it's where those two things come together, where they converge. And so um, yeah, I this is a long-winded way of saying I not not saying a college athlete couldn't come in and win, totally possible. Um, but I do think that there's there's a lot of skill development and there's a lot of mental uh aspect of it for that type of gain. I mean, and you'll see that'll be evident in my selection for who I think will be on the team for this year. Um, like there's a possibility, I'd say maybe a 40 to 50 percent probability that um, you know, maybe an athlete like uh like an Aries Redding coming out of college um will be someone that could potentially make it on that team. But to win the race, I I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00I think that we're gonna have there's some question marks there and there's some things we're gonna have to say. So and to what you're saying, it to me it sounds like it's one thing to be fit enough to win this race, it's another thing to trust the fitness that you have to win the race.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like dude, that's just this like there's this fucking confidence that like Mason just has. And same with Dan and like Christian, when you talk to these guys and Courtney, like dude, Courtney blew me away yesterday in our conversation. Like, just like and the only thing I came right away from was like this per this particular person just is like in such a good mental space and like so ready to be a champion and like yeah, just so confident in what they do. Um, you know, that it's almost like I don't know, me as the interviewer can usually just tell, like, okay, this person is in a great place, and that that usually will translate into a great performance, things like that. Um, so yeah, uh enough enough talking about uh all these things. Well, quiet confidence speaks volumes. It's true. I mean, it's not you're not wrong, but I think like I don't know, like you could just pick up in someone's voice if they're terrified or if they're because I think everybody's terrified stepping onto that start line. You're always nervous, right? Um, but when you kind of switch that to a celebration of all the hard work that you did and um but also still have that killer mentality and that swag. Um yeah, I I think that that's the there's some there's definitely you can stop talking about me whenever you want. Um I was gonna throw a cheeky comment at you, but I will don't be so afraid. Let's um let's talk about some of the names.
Women To Watch And New Names
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh we'll start with the female. Okay. Uh the female list. Um this is a really interesting female list. I think there's a lot of really interesting, cool athletes on here. Um, there's obviously some clear favorites, some clear contenders, but also I think there's some really good opportunities for athletes to start to make their name, especially coming from the collegiate rankings or um or those that are like kind of known quantities that will become like a known quantity. Like I think people don't understand, like, like, for instance, like Maya Rail has a great opportunity to do well at this race. Um, I mean, we all know Rena Schwartz, who had a you know, fifth place finisher last year. Um, you know, was I guess you could say the collegiate champion and uh like you know, clear, clear podium contender for this race. Um on the collegiate side as well. I'm very interested to see Oakley Olsen. Okay. Um cannot wait to see her compete. Can you tell me a little bit more about her? Yeah, Oakley Olsen's a FSU track athlete. Okay. She was the collegiate title holder, I think it was in 2024. Yes, it was in 2024 at Cirque Series Snowbird. Um, she she uh raced there and had a top 10 film. Okay. Um so definitely translates to the trail. She's a steepler. Um I think she was at university.
SPEAKER_00There's a long history of steeplers doing exceptionally well on trail. I mean, it it makes total sense. Just having that wherewithal to uh one, be able to go over barriers and then also have the footwork to land properly in the water hazard. So there's a lot, uh there's a lot to take from that skill set. And I think that's that is already a promising start. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think Oakley has all the tools to do extremely well. Um, definitely, I don't know. I I I don't think that and I used this terminology yesterday. I was like talking to Courtney and I was like trying to think of the right way to say it because it's not a passing of the torch moment. I don't think that's right. Because I just think it's an opportunity for more women to start to make their name on the scene, right? Because like Anna, Lauren, Allie, like those names aren't there this year. Like Courtney, I would say Courtney is probably the I I I mean, I I don't think that's wrong in saying I'd say Courtney is one of the biggest names, if not the biggest female name in the field. Um and there's a lot of others.
SPEAKER_00I think there's maybe an argument to be made for a color title.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. 100%. And Elise as well. Um Elisa. Um, but yeah, I'd say, I don't know. I think this is a great opportunity for someone like Oakley to make their name. Um another collegiate athlete, Gabby D'Angelis. Um, she was a soccer player at Siena and then um finished with uh her master's degree in track and field and ran track and field uh at the university, I think it was University of New Hampshire. Um she's another one. She's running for the Marathon Sports Team, um, for which is like uh um uh a team, a women's team that's in uh Northeast. And so had a I think she was runner-up last year um for the collegiate side. So I think she was on the post. She was definitely on the pone. I think she was second um last year for the collegiate side for this race.
SPEAKER_00And so going into the overall race and you know, seeing where that can take her. But I I mean it's the again with with the field being a little less dense up top on the women's side as it was compared to last year, I think this provides a an ample opportunity for someone like that who does has have the experience to really shine and potentially get a podium or get selected on that uh on a team for the first time.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about Alicia. Um Alicia Morin. I'm sorry if that's the wrong pronunciation of her last name. I gotta work on my French. Um, just awestruck by Alicia. I'm so excited that she's gonna be in this race. I understand that she is coming off an injury, so that we're not really sure on how how the chips are gonna fall there. Dude, like I know she for a fact she was she performed very well at Worlds. She was ninth at OCC last year, so 2025. She won the Quebec Mega Trail 50K last year. Um, more, I'd say more specifically for a race like this, uh, the classic updown at Defy De Calour in 2024, she was the champion at. Um, and she was also the vertical champion as well. So she can climb and she can descend. She can run classics very well. Um, she can go long or something like a 50k or like a 60k, even with OCC.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, coming top 10 at OCC, that's that's a huge performance on the biggest stage in the world. She can do it all. And she's a Brooks athlete. Yeah. Um, very excited, very, very excited too. For just a brief moment, can we talk about Brooks has done a phenomenal job in the last year? I mean, they've always done a great job, especially on the European side, but um, it seems like their North American contingency has really grown in the last year in particular. It seems like they've made the right investments.
SPEAKER_01100%. Uh, Jordan and what he's done with that team, dude, um, you know, just a lot of really strong athletes. I mean, you've got, you know, some of some of the best short tail short trail athletes on on in the planet right now. On the planet, which is kind of crazy to talk about. Um Yeah, I I don't know. I I think that I think they did a really good job. I mean, dude, think about it. Like you have Dan Kurtz, Taylor Stack, Courtney Coppinger, uh, Anna Gibson, Mika. Mika's a boss, dude. Yeah. And I feel bad because he's kind of gone through um, you know, a lot of uh just ups and downs with injury over the last few years. But dude, he's even just on his elliptico, the guy goes and he goes and whoops everybody's ass like Zach Miller need to have a few.
SPEAKER_00What's that? He and Zach Miller need to have a race on their ellipticos. Zach Miller's an elliptigo guy? He I I remember he was uh he had a few posts a few years ago where he was doing some cross-training because he had uh hip, he was having hip problems, so he was ripping on ellipticos all around town. Dude, I don't know if I think that's not the most Manitou thing you've ever heard of.
SPEAKER_01That is so Manitou. I you know, I was thinking about Zach the other day and on my long run on Saturday, because I was running I'm not gonna say where I was running because I'm a sandbagger and I don't like to give away my routes, but I was running in Manitou Springs and I was manifesting Zach Miller because I was like, you know, I like I wonder if I'm gonna see him on this because I know he runs back here all the time. And who do I see right after I finished the race? Not Zach Miller. I ran into Morgan Elliott, and I was like, oh, this is really funny. Yeah, yeah. So I was like, man, this is what a small world. Manitou's uh yeah, it's the convergence of trail athletes now. I know it it don't come to Manitou. Yeah, it's terrible, terrible place.
SPEAKER_00We don't have any trails and no one's nice, and you know what? You're just not gonna find any accessibility out here. And the loft, which is my favorite coffee place in the world, sucks.
SPEAKER_01Don't go there.
SPEAKER_00Every time I'm on the podcast, it seems like it turns into a locals only podcast at this point. You know, we're gonna turn to a surfing podcast like locals only, get out of here. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Well, I know you're a little bit nicer than I, you're significantly nicer than I am about about giving away areas and stuff like that, but uh I've turned into time I'm Strava Dark for a reason. I mean, dude, I I went after Ace a couple weeks ago. I was like, dude, why are you putting this route? Like, because it was like in an area that like I didn't think was should be on somewhere. I was like, why are you putting this out to the masses? Anyway, we're going on a hole. Tanger. Back to the women's back to the Sun of Peace Scramble. Um anyway, so a couple facts that I let's let's take a segue from the women's
Team Selection Rules And Prize Money
SPEAKER_01race. Um, two things that I wanted to talk about that I did actually miss in the beginning. One, this is a selection race for the four top men, the four top women, uh Americans, um, will be selected to compete in DeFi declore. I'm not sure if I said that already. And also on top of that, there is a $30,000 cash prize that you made me think of because you were talking about Brooks. So shout out to Brooks for pulling it up for athletes. Dude, $10,000 for the win.
SPEAKER_00That is what this is what we need to see in the sport. I mean, if we are trying to be honest about our opportunity to grow and bring in fresh young talent and get people interested right out of college, that's the way to do it. It's incentivizing properly. And it's the obviously there are other ways to do it, but I'd rather see people take the professional route where they're getting good contracts, getting good payouts for good performances from their contracts and from the race rather than someone having to do something that's disingenuous to them to promote themselves on social media. Some people, that's exactly the right medium for them to do that. But there are people who they're all business and they're gonna come in week in, week out. They're gonna be consistent, they're gonna be getting podiums or top fives, and that's the way that they're gonna want to make their name and make their living in the sport. And I think Sonopee Scramble is setting a great example for how this model should be built. And obviously, it's but based on the relationships you're getting on the more corporate side of things. But if you can reach an agreement where this is this is how you're gonna incentivize runners, I think we're all gonna benefit from this. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I do. I mean, dude, the I think the um not even I think, like I know the applause needs to go to Tom Hooper. Like Tom has done a lot for this sport, dude. And um, I know I love to give a jab at Tom whenever I can as a because he's a friend of mine. He's a joke, he likes to joke. He likes the we like to have fun. I owe him a beer. I'll we'll get a beer together at uh Broken Arrow. But anyway, he um, dude, like hats off for what he's done, you know. I mean, and it's not just this race, it's a lot of his races. Loon has a giant prize purse, Kismet's got a giant prize purse, Ragged does. I mean, it's just um he is really and it's not just him, it's uh it's the whole community backing him and and a lot of the other members of the community, but I'll be damned. Like they're really putting the Northeast on the scene. Like, this is the dude, this is the place to be. Um I love Broken Arrow, and I'm so excited for Broken Arrow. I just wonder if prize money to that level is sustainable to that level in the long term. I think this is a bit, in my opinion, a bit more sustainable where this this I think will last year over year. I mean, this is an off year, dude. Like we're not selecting a world's team. So, I mean, if this sticks and this works really well, that means next year is gonna be even bigger.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm just really excited for where this is going. And on with what you're saying on the growth side of things, I I completely agree. I think sustainable growth year over year, if we saw next year that the winner's getting $12,000 or something like that, I think that's a sustainable growth model where you're it the investors that are putting money into this are seeing their return on investment and they're seeing the value from it. Absolutely. I think that is a great way to go about this. Um, but you know, I I'm not here to speculate on whether I think Broken Arrows model is sustainable or not. I'm just happy that there are these organizations that are seeing the value and trying to invest in the athletes. But I I want to give a special shout out to to Tom. Again, I know we're kind of uh having a uh ooh ah fest for him right now, but uh shout out to Paul Kirsch as well. Love Paul Yeah, but uh we're both East Coast people. I grew up in Baltimore. I have a special fondness for the mid-Atlantic and the Northeast in particular. And I just think that having a race organization that is getting a spotlight, getting uh put on it um for all the right reasons is not only good for the sport, but just good for highlighting places that need to be highlighted. 100%.
SPEAKER_01No, it's cool, dude. There's some great history on this race too. Like this race was created for worlds, like in the sense where 2023, Tom needed to come up with a race for a selection. I believe back then it was either, I think it was April or it was either late April or May. Um, so they needed to figure something out because June, July was the time frame for the 2023 worlds in Innsbruck. So Tom came up with this race. He put in a vertical and then he did a single loop, um, single loop mountain classic, which was, you know, that was Dan's first win in 2023 and also Grayson's uh championship as well. One of Grayson's championships. So very, very cool. There's not a crazy amount of history on this race, but it's all as championship DNA. Yeah. It all like every time people are competing at this, it's for something, and it really matters.
SPEAKER_00Uh and for a course that was created specifically for championships, it is still a compelling course.
SPEAKER_01100%, dude. Oh, it's no joke. This course is gonna beat beat some asses, dude. Uh let's get back to the
Deeper Women’s Field Breakdown
SPEAKER_01women's race. I do really want to go a little bit further in depth. We talked about Courtney Coppinger. Um, we did talk about Taylor Tuttle. Taylor Tuttle, I mean, dude, what a resume. Um, you know, most recently, second uh at the Gorge Waterfalls Thursday.
SPEAKER_00We could I could talk an hour about the battle between her and Lauren Gregory. Why don't you talk about it? I won't talk for an hour. Sorry, everyone. But I that was one of the more hyped, uh, one of the more hyped rivalries going into Gorge weekend. And for lack of a better term, it did not, it did not fail to deliver. It did a, you know, there was, you know, there was this constant tug between the two. It seemed like Lauren was kind of trailing for a little bit or at least working off of Taylor. She also got lost at one point. Um, but obviously Lauren kind of dropped the hammer in that, was it the last 5k, 6k in that range? Um, but it it just showed that, you know, Lauren, as good and as dominant as she is, she was not the one necessarily in control the entire time. Taylor had her on the ropes. And I think that's it. I'm not, I don't want to equate everything to Miller versus Hawks because that has such a deep history in the sport. But there were, I felt like there was an element of that where it's an uh, you know, someone who's been established in the sport and someone who is establishing themselves in the sport. And it felt like this this thing that could be telling of a rivalry that's gonna go on for a few years. And I that just gets me really excited to see the new talent that's entering the sport, especially on a side of running, uh trail running that hasn't been focused on the shorter trail distance. Now it's starting to get some eyes on it, and there's really compelling storylines going into it as well. Also, gotta love that it's on the women's side as well. Yes. I they they deserve as much attention, if not more so, because I think so far this year the women's races have been way more exciting.
SPEAKER_01Not 100%. I have a funny joke really quick I just wanted to throw in there from Hayden Hawks and uh Zach Miller uh on Miller vs. Hawks. I don't know if the story has ever been. I think I got this from Hayden, so it is it is true. Uh apparently when they were racing, this was like going back to what race was? I guess it was it was the North Face Endurance challenge in Marin County. All I know is Zach Pete on on uh Zach Pete on Hayden. That's a true story. Hayden was running like you know how we were running today where you were like when we were on the climb, you were kind of sitting on me. Like on and so not unusual. You're you're so slow. Hayden Hayden looks down. He's like, uh, and this is not my story to tell. I just find this to be really funny aside. I don't know if I've ever if this has gotten told much around. I just find it really funny because Zach can pee when he runs. It's really hard to do, by the way. I I and so he's like, my legs are getting wet, and I look up and it Zach's fucking peeing and peed on me. So there's a funny uh there's a funny one for the listeners. There's a euphemism in there somewhere, but I just can't seem to be able to do that. No, there's no wisdom. I just thought it was a really funny side story. Uh back to Taylor Tuttle. Um yeah, I she has this particular style of racing, and I think that's gonna make her very successful at this race. I mean, I think um it would take a really bad day to not get on Team Yose, in my opinion. Um, definitely one of the strongest athletes, if not one of the strongest aerobic engines, maybe the strongest aerobic engine going into this race. Very specific style. Like your Gorge Waterfall is a very fast, flat, I would say flat race. Yeah, flatter. Big Alta, fast. And remember, it's all more or less dirt roads and non-technical trail. Very fast. So it leads to her climbing ability, and that's why she seems to do very well here. Um I will say 50K also. She's the 2025 50K champion uh at Tempala Headlands or national champion.
SPEAKER_00Uh funny story, that was my wife's first and only 50K that she's run uh at that same on the same day. So I was inadvertently out there uh watching Taylor Tuttle, but I did not realize it. I was just helping crew my wife through her first 50k um gorgeous course. Obviously, it seems like a lot of West Coast uh or California style courses, but that being said, Gorge Waterfalls is a great intro into this one. Just uh more runnable, but extremely wet. So you're getting some of the technicality from having to deal with wetness on the course, whether you can trust a step or not. And so I think that's actually a good primer for a race like this.
SPEAKER_01I agree. I agree. I think she has all the tools to do extremely well here. Um, one thing I want to talk about, or one athlete I want to talk about, is uh Rena Schwartz.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I wanted to bring her.
SPEAKER_01I believe I already talked about her result from last year. Um, you know, she's been on this course three times now. She was there in 2023. Um is that right? Or was I wrong? No, she was here in 2020. I don't know. Oh, yeah. No. Oh, because it's a UTS, UC USATF race. Excuse me, everybody. Screw that up, looking at ultra sign up. Um, she has a lot of success here. I mean, she was fifth place and the collegiate title holder from 2025, fifth place overall, and sat right on Courtney's tail, man. I mean, this was a very close race. Um, Courtney, I believe, finished the race in 2025. In let me see here. Courtney ran 124.34, and Rena was about a minute, a little bit more than a minute behind 125.57. So we'll see who's improved more. It's gonna be interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I I I think it's helpful to kind of have that context from the previous year, but so much can change in a year. Uh yeah, it's you know, hopefully both of them have been pretty healthy in the meantime and just put in a really good, uh, consistent training in that time. But, you know, if someone's had an injury, someone's gotten sick, if someone's had to take time off for any other reason, there's uh, you know, there's a big gap that could be filled there. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I do want to talk about Casey Eaman, okay. Um Vermonter. Um, dude, at the age of 45, I'm guessing she's gonna be 46. Uh yeah, she'll be 46 for this race. I mean, she was in the top 10 last time around in a super deep competitive women's field, ran 130 flat. Um, she's won Sentipee, and she's had you know some fantastic results. I I think she's gonna be a perennial top five, top ten contender here. Why not?
SPEAKER_00I know. I I could very uh if the weather it the weather's looking like it's gonna be rainy. Doesn't say I I didn't see quite how bad, but if it's only a little bit sloppy out there, I I could see this time dropping because it was a little bit a little bit messy last year as well. Um, so I'm I could see her running faster than one thirty, considering the course is uh supposed to be the same. Um for sure. Yeah. So I'm I I think that this is someone that I I'm struggling to see her necessarily on the podium, but someone challenging for that four through six position. For sure. No, I completely agree. But also just I've what a what a resume dude. What a what a resume and goals right here. This is what I want to be when I'm 46. I want to be this. I want to be a good one.
SPEAKER_01Do you imagine like still competing, competing to that level at 46 years old?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Her Max King, the people just throwing down insane times and still being someone that people that strikes fear into people's hearts when they sign up and they look at the entrance list.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it goes to show you, man, it's not always the fittest person that wins these races, or at least performs in the top 10. You know, sometimes there's a lot more to it. So it's uh, you know, experience matters and goes a long way, and also hard work. So you get that that you know, old man, old woman strength. I I'm trying to get dad strength before I'm ever even a dad. So it's that's where I was going with that. Um let's talk about Maya Rail. Um very excited about Maya. Uh trail team member, trail team selection this year for the Trail Team Elite. Um, second place, the Rutt 28K in 2025. I know she had a top five finish as well at Cirque Series uh Grand Target in 2025. Most recently took a fourth place finish at the Gorge Waterfall 30K, which is a very competitive race. She was right there behind some of those ladies. Um, I'd say this is more her course. Um, you know, Maya's got a cool background, dude. She ran for Harvard and then ran for Wisconsin. Um, so very, very strong uh collegiate pedigree. And um yeah, just looking looking very forward to seeing her competing here.
SPEAKER_00Do you like apples? Is my question for you. Do I like apples? Have you have you never seen Goodwill Hunting?
SPEAKER_01I have. How about those apples?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how about them apples? I think that's what honestly, I think that's what we're gonna be saying after the race this weekend is we're gonna say how you like them apples. Uh it's uh yeah. I I think she has exactly the pedigree we were talking about earlier, where she is someone really comfortable on trail, but also has that deep training background. I'm she is we'll get to our predictions. Um I think you're gonna see her name appear in my predictions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, same. I mean, yeah, I I I definitely have her in the mix, if not on Team USA for sure. Yeah. Um, any other women that kind of stand out to you? One thing I do want to say for the collegiate side, I'm really bummed, but um uh her name escapes me. Um Leah Taylor. That's right. Leah Taylor. We're supposed to have her on for a pre-race interview. She is not gonna be competing this weekend. That's she's another Florida stater along with uh Oakley, and uh was really looking forward to seeing her kind of open up her season kind of for one of her first trial races. Um another one like a high pedigree collegiate background in running.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, again, the this this race is littered with some collegiate talent. Um I well Maya actually just texted me.
SPEAKER_01Oh speaking of the sketter on the pod for a pre-race. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm trying to think. I think we've talked about a lot of the major names that were on my list. You kind of called out some of the dark horses that I was uh eyeballing as well, because again, this is uh this is littered with with people that have talent. It's just a matter of will it translate? Sure.
SPEAKER_01No, a hundred percent.
Men’s Contenders Dark Horses And Tactics
SPEAKER_01Um okay, let's let's move on to the men and talk about some of the men in the field. Um I gotta ask you this. What do you think what do you think about Ares Riding?
SPEAKER_00Uh so insider to insider baseball here. Uh uh shout out to coach um Mason Copey. He told me to um keep him on my radar because they were previous uh college teammates at Furman. Um recently Ares uh won the big Alta 28K. Um looks like he also had a had a really good run at the uh Canyons Endurance run 25k, came in second overall there. Uh guy is obviously extremely talented at that 20 to 30k distance. Um so I'm I am uh I'm key I'm gonna be very cautious about that because I think you know we we can make a prediction about these those two races are very different than in a northeastern type of trail. Um, you know, there there is the saying of uh of about California carpet, um, but I think I I think if someone like Mason is telling me to keep an eye on them, um I'm I'm gonna keep one ear to the ground and see what see what's going on. I I really like the prospect of someone who has that deep a training background and has also performed really well at a race the size of Canyons. And you know, the big Ulta's on the rise as well. I think it's growing in popularity, but it I think it I think uh the Big Ulta is a little less technical than what Canyons has to offer.
SPEAKER_01Sure. No, these are both um I think these lend more to Aries' strengths, um, these types of courses. F fast, runnable climbs, non-technical, everything for his. I mean, according to Matt Daniels, he's the fittest man in Boulder. Oh it's a bold statement. Not even Cade. Uh that's what this is what Matt's saying. Okay. I don't know. Um, but this is uh remember when I said there's levels to this game? Yeah. This is this is where you get to see some of the highest level when it comes to this. This is definitely swimming in the deep end. Um this is his moment, dude. This is a great opportunity. So if he can have a a fantastic performance here um and beat some of these guys, or we're you know, he's got all the ability in the world to perform well at this race. So yeah, it's a great opportunity. I I like I said, I think this is um he's gonna get to see you know what it's like at the very, very highest level. Because so far he's beaten, he's beaten Joan, he's beaten um Marcel Hoshe and a few others at at Alta, and I don't know who was at uh Canyon's 25k, but um this is the first time you're gonna see like Dan Kurtz and Christian and uh Mason and like oh yeah the best in the world, like guys that were on the US team that are the best that we're sending abroad.
SPEAKER_00Um I will say he it does look like he eventually took pictures.
SPEAKER_01What's up with this picture on Furman?
SPEAKER_00Oh well, no, this isn't Furman. So he was at Firman, transferred over to Santa Clara. Okay, um, and Santa Clara, if anyone else is uh familiar with the um not the Boulder Boys, but uh what was the group that Sam Parsons and Drew Hunter started? Uh Tin Man Elite. Yeah, Tin Man Elite. Um one of their Joey Barriatua. Um he was Santa Clara Lum sort of uh started to bring that uh program on the rise. Uh they're infamous for taking the goofiest pictures for their athletic program. Um they'll grow out huge mustaches, they'll be intentionally silly. So do yourself a favor, go and look at the 2023-2024 men's cross country track and field roster photo, photo for Aries Redding. Um you won't be disappointed. It's quite the goatee. Yeah, I mean, he's he is looking like who's the lead singer for uh Sugar Ray?
SPEAKER_01That's deep cut. I would get that one. Um yeah, he's he looks like a he's a little bit of a wild boy. So this is I'm rooting for him. Hopefully he has a good day out there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think I think he's one to really keep your eye on, but this is I think this will be the first true testing ground of something that's gonna be a very true mountain running classic.
SPEAKER_01Yes, 100%. This is a different course, man. This is uh not only is the level higher, but the course is gonna be significantly harder than anything he's seen all year. Um and it's gonna be, I also think, remember when I talk about that mental component? It's gonna take a very it's a good not a grown-up move, but a it's a veteran move to not blow yourself up going into that second loop to on the f to to absolutely smoke it on the first loop, right? And still have legs for that second climb.
SPEAKER_00Not to not to give any tactics away, but obviously I think sitting a little bit on that first climb and saving it for the second loop is the proper way to go about it. Obviously, keep in touch, but um not not letting your ego ride the first uh the first uphill is gonna be key. Because this dude's fit of shit.
SPEAKER_01So like you're gonna explain. He's going, he I guarantee you he's going off with uh he's gonna go off with Christian. We all know what Christian's gonna do. You know, Christian races crazy, crazy aggressive. Um, yeah, when we get into picks, we'll talk about that. But a few other names. Uh Dan Kurtz, obviously. Dan is 2023 U.S. mountain running champion. Um, has you know competed over for TMUSA as well. Um, suffered a little heartbreak last year by not getting on that team. Definitely, uh, in my opinion, I think would have done great on that world's team. Um, but he's back, dude. He's back, he's got some things that are like changed up and retooled. Um I would expect him to do very well. Uh Eddie Owens, Eddie Owens from Mill Valley, California, big Eddie Owens fan. He's someone I have not had on the podcast yet. I have got to have him.
SPEAKER_00You should have him. I I I believe I was listening to a race recap a f a year or two ago, but I I I can't remember if he was running with Chad Hall and Johnny Luma Leima Luna Lima, and they were dropping like four or five miles into a race on a downhill, dropping like 430 miles. Um, which sounds really on brand, but yeah, Eddie Owens, if whether or not that story is true, I cannot remember. So you know, don't put a gun to my head and hold me to it. Um, but I I'm so excited to see him race. I think that he's gonna go guns ablaze.
SPEAKER_01And you know, Eddie's always kind of right there, has never, never quite gotten over the hump. Like he was at the 2021 U.S. Mountain Running Championship, which is at Narnar. Um, if you guys remember that race, that's kind of a deep cut. Uh great race in Oregon. Uh I really wish they'd bring that race back. Anyway, he was fourth place there um at the Narnar. He was fourth place at Loon in 2022 for the uphills. Uh in 2023, um, at the vertical, he was fourth. And then uh the up down in 2023, which was Sunapee as well, uh, he was sixth place. So just like right there. Um it's gonna be interesting. You know, I I think he's a perennial contender, no doubt about it. Um, will he be able to get over the hump? Uh that's that's an excellent question. Um, some other just some notable scratches for athletes that are not gonna be there. Um, fan favorite, one of my favorites, Mika. Uh Bolden uh Russo will not be there. Um there with Liam. Liam's not gonna be there as well. Um few more names. Your coach, Mason Copi, good friend. Um yeah, Mason's gonna be there. It's gonna be yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, last last year's second place um behind Norris. So I obviously already really skilled on this field. I think we were both talking about how he's potentially one of the most complete runners all around in the field. So um hard to argue with the pedigree there as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and you know, Mason's undefeated in 2026, which is nuts to think about. I that is crazy.
SPEAKER_02I I even won the Boston Marathon, dude.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. I no, it's seriously, he won the the what how do you pronounce it? How do you say it? I guess it's the uh it's the non, it's hard to say non-elite because that's not the right way to say.
SPEAKER_00No, it's the um it's like the citizens race.
SPEAKER_01Citizens race, thank you. Yeah, he won the citizens race. Uh coming like a week off of Gorge, too. It was one uh a week and a half off of Gorge, yeah. Crazy. Um Alexander Ricard. Alexander Ricard is uh one of the best uphill plant runners on the planet. Um extremely talented athlete out of Squamish British British Columbia, uh, 2023 champion. He actually beat Joseph Gray, one of the few people to beat Joseph Gray. Not many people can say they've done that. Um, yeah, he beat Joe in the 2023 uphill, but he is Canadian, so obviously on the Canadian team. And then he's gonna be really modest about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's gonna be really guy.
SPEAKER_01Um and then got second place in 2023 as well in the up down, right behind uh Dan Kurtz. I do know he's coming off an injury, so we'll see if he's in form. Gotcha, but definitely one of the one of the favorites to look at.
SPEAKER_00Also, uh a little down the list. Well, I I want to say I'm I'm excited to see that. Hopefully, his injury is okay and he's feeling ready to run. Uh a little bit further down the list, uh, a name that we typically wouldn't see in a race this distance, Steven Kerr. So um obviously are you thinking of Steven Kersh? Uh perhaps. Uh I oh my goodness. I am sorry. I got a little too excited, guys. Uh not the first time I've jumped the gun. But um I I saw the name, got a little excited, and I was like, wow, what I in my initial run through, I did not see him uh racing this. Um but there are a few other really big, really good names on there. I think we've talked about um we have talked about, I apologize. I have to interrupt you for a second.
SPEAKER_01Uh you got Slim to actually respond to you on Instagram. Oh, it's about time. Look, I Steve, our co-host, has been taunting uh Christian Allen on in my comments uh for the podcast, and he got him to respond. Sorry, Christian.
SPEAKER_00Look, I'm I I'm sorry they called me Billy Shakespeare on there, old Billy. I'm a wordsmith. Um, yeah. I I want to point out one name that is gonna be lesser known if you're looking at ultra sign up, third name down. Um probably not you're laughing at the comment. Yeah. Third name down. Typically, I I won't read a lot into the people who have 100% on ultra sign up, especially if there's only one result. Um, but I looking at this person's um uh background, I I kind of liked this person as a dark horse. Danny Cosgrove from uh Massachusetts area ran for uh I believe it was UMass Lowell, um, has a 409 mile to his name, but is really familiar with the area. And I think that I I don't know what his background is in terms of um full-on trail running. He's won a 24K in Massachusetts, uh, the Mount Toby trail race. Again, there is not much to go off of there other than looks fast, already has a has a race under his belt and seems to have done quite well with it and has grown up in the area. And if I know anything about New Englanders, it's that they're very proud of their outdoors. So I'd be willing to bet that this person has that Danny has spent some time out on the trails and is pretty comfortable on this. So uh I would say keep him on your radar if you haven't already checked him out.
SPEAKER_01I like that. That's a good one. Um, one more that I have to add on there, Zachary Erickson. Um Zachary Ericsson is a 100% gonna be a contender. Uh last year, seventh place, right there, dude. Oh, and third place at the Pike's Peak Ascent as well. Yep, right there. I mean, you're talking about someone that uh is just was so close to figuring it out. Um, so talented. He actually ran a BYU with Christian.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. So that takes that trail team selection. He has his own YouTube channel with his uh wife, correct? Oh, I don't know. I I could be wrong. Um again, don't hold me to anything on this.
SPEAKER_01Um, 24-year-old from Utah. Uh ran 112.55 last year. So I'm just gonna put this out there. One of the things I this is why I really like Zach. One, he's a very personable and kind human, but also he put this on Estrava January 1st, 2026. He writes 2026 U.S. Mountain Team Rebust. So he's been thinking about this for a long time.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well he wants this. That makes me very excited. And looks like already has uh raced at Sunape last year. Yep. Came in seventh overall, first on in the collegiate. So, you know, there's that experience that we're looking for on course.
SPEAKER_01Agreed, agreed. We got Remy LaRue in the race as well. Another one. I think he was ninth place last year, but had a great first loop. Couldn't finish it out on the second loop because he had like a uh he th he thought he fractured his foot, dude, in the race and just kept going to just tell you what a boss Remy is. Continues like continues to race, finishes. He's like, Oh, I'm pretty sure I have a stress fracture. Like he must have read David Goggins the night before. Next week, the following week, he goes and wins Cirque Series Canon. Um, yeah, Remy's a freaking boss. And I was talking about earlier, a great conversation with him yesterday. We had so audience, go listen to our pre-race interview. But one of the switch ups he made this year was a lot of dedication to technical downhill running. And I'm sure he's gonna want to kind of show that off and and really kind of put that forward and commit. Um, already a world-class climber, and it just goes to show you how much better he might be kind of with that. And you know, the other thing too, uh I don't know, for those of you, I don't even know. Is this on Free Trail Fantasy? I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00Um, I haven't checked, honestly. Let me, I've got their website up right now.
SPEAKER_01This is just for athletes that are picking that like maybe you might have been turned off because of his Black Indian 50k or um his Gorge Waterfalls race. Uh uh-uh. I wouldn't be I wouldn't be looking at those as indicators of Remy's ability. Like, dude, I'm telling you right now, one of the best mountain classic athletes on the planet, like, he will 100% do well in this race. Um, anywhere from top 10 to winning the race, he has the ability to go do. Um, yeah, definitely check out Remy. Um, definitely stay. You're gonna be long on him. Is it on there? Yes, it is. I figured okay. Well, if you're do not uh get confused, Remy LaRue is a great pick. Uh one of the again, just like Alex, a Canadian on this race, so he's not gonna be eligible, obviously, for two MSA. Um, but he's gonna be competing for that prize money, dude. Yeah. $10,000 payout. Let's let's let's go. And then last athlete, Christian Allen, um, that I'm gonna call out. Um real nobody. Fastest mullet in the last hatch, maybe the fastest mullet in trail running. Probably is. At least in North America, I could say. Do a lot of other guys have trip have mullets, though? That's the question. In trail.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I was gonna say I think he's the fastest mullet.
SPEAKER_01I mean, dude, he's third, second or third at the worlds in the vehicle. I mean, I think definitely the fastest mullet.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't think there's any competition there. Yeah. I mean, once I regrow mine out, he's in trouble, but you and Christian, dude.
SPEAKER_01Um we'll talk about this when we do picks. Um I really like Christian for this race. I think you gotta remember, he's also a 2024 US mountain running champion at the ComSirk Series Snowbird, beat a super deep field there. Um yeah, including a Taylor Stack, who's starting to figure things out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but yeah, I definitely gotta say, like, I'm I'm very interested to see how Christian does. Christian is a balls to the wall type racer. He takes it out so hard. He was in the front of the group. If you guys watched the live stream in 2025, yeah. Um, right in the front of the group, wound up dropping, but he was also coming off a stress fracture last time. This is a healthy Christian, and healthy Christian equals dangerous. So it's gonna be very interesting to see how he takes this race out and how he how he rolls his dice. Because I would say probably the biggest aerobic engine in the race.
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't think there's any arguing that. I don't think that's a good thing. I mean, he's got he's got a sub-210 marathon to his name as of the last year. Um fastest, I believe, trail crossover or trail-focused athlete um on the roads currently. So I, you know, I think that the aerobic engine is obviously there, and we also know his capabilities of running a pure uphill are second to none. Um, so I I think we know how he's gonna run. I would really love to see him sh uh exercise a little patience on that and then um use some of that explosiveness in going into the second uphill, and that's where he could bury some folks. But I I think he just makes racing interesting. He makes it fun. He does. Um matter no matter how uh a performance ends up, he makes the race a more interesting place to view. I agree, I agree.
SPEAKER_01Um dude, he's so so bad. He's so good. Like good, but like bad man. He's first team all violence, dude. First team can catch these hands. Yeah, he's he's lit, he's so good. Anyway, um let's move on. We're kind of limited on time. I gotta hop off for a Taylor Tuttle soon uh to do a pre-oris interview, but let's go into
Picks For Team USA And Winners
SPEAKER_01picks. I'm gonna let you um let you go ahead and start with the women. Start with the women. Uh first thing I'm gonna know, I'm gonna I'm what I'm gonna do is a little bit different. I'm gonna let you pick your individual picks. I'm gonna recruise myself from actual like one through five or one through four, however you want to do it. I was figuring we were gonna do one through four. Yeah, one through four is fine. I just I have no, I can't, I I just first of all, a lot of these people are my friends. Yeah. I find it weird, but also like it's hard for me. I'm gonna name my team USA. Um but it's just kind of gets it away. Well, no, because like the Canadians can't, you know. True. Um, but I I definitely think um, yeah, this is a hard decision, hard, hard one to make. So I'll let you take it away.
SPEAKER_00So I I I this is this is tough because we've talked about some really, really good names out here today. I am going to go for an upset on this one. I know that we both kind of did this last time and we were proven wrong by the greatness that is Tovey Alexanderson. Um I'm gonna go Taylor Tuttle taking it, going one, Courtney Coppinger going number two. I'm gonna go Maya Rail going three. And I'm gonna go. Oh, it's a toss up between Oakley and Rena for me. Um I'm gonna go Rena edges it out sl uh ever so slightly. I I I feel good about that. I I know it's not a pick of who's just. Just the best name on paper, but it's there are so this is like we were saying, because we're missing some of the the the trademark names um on the women's side that were here last year, this is really uh open field for someone to grab that is still establishing themselves. And I I think Taylor Tuttle um really sta um staking her claim and just going and saying, I'm here right now. I I think this is her title.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think for my team USA is gonna be Courtney, Courtney Coppinger, Rena, Taylor Tuttle, and Maya Raleigh. That's what I got. Wow. Copycat. Is it the same exact thing you had? I was like, Yeah, just not necessarily in that order. Uh kind of not paying attention. Um yeah, dude. So, I mean, I'll just add a little commentary on this. Um, very interested in the matchup between Courtney and Taylor. Me too.
SPEAKER_00I think that's gonna deliver.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think Courtney, you gotta remember, dude, Courtney's already kind of gotten an opportunity to see really where she's at, and so has Taylor. Um Courtney is really, really good at the mountain classic distance. Yeah. Has her bread and butter. You gotta remember, Courtney's also uh I think she went to the University of Kansas, if I remember correctly, steepler. Uh, just all the talent in the world.
SPEAKER_00Look, my pick of putting her in second. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to convince you. No, no, no. My pick of putting her in second is not uh not a vote of confidence um or a vote against confidence in her. I think she has all the talent in the world, uh especially from re-watching the um Not that Taylor doesn't. Yeah, we I haven't heard from Taylor. I mean we're gonna talk to her in in yeah in four minutes. I I I just know that it even if even if Courtney comes in and wins, I'm gonna be happy either way. It's one of the things where you can't go wrong with either pick. But I'm I'm excited for this matchup. This is another one where Taylor and Taylor and Lauren got me excited. Taylor versus Courtney is getting me excited.
SPEAKER_01You know, Rena could win this race too, man.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01You know, I think I I think about that in the back of my head. Like, Rena's got all the ability in the world to like, you gotta remember Mount Washington champion, um, really good at the Cirque series races. I believe she's won A-Basin. Rena's really good. Yeah. Um, trained in Boulder or trains in Boulder and then just moved back to Vermont for um, I think she goes back and forth for school um for like the way the semesters work. And so yeah, Rena, do not sleep on Rena Schwartz. Like what and I think I think this is her opportunity, dude. Like, gets on the team USA, and people more people get to learn her name. She's awesome. Uh let's talk about the men. I'll let you uh take it away. I'm I'm so curious to hear your pick here.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I know we were talking about this earlier. I feel really I'm feeling really good about this one. I think it is Dan Kurtz's year. I think he's going away with it. Um, I'm really excited to see him race and again just get a new highlight reel between uh much like on the women's side, where we're excited about Taylor and Courtney. I'm really excited between uh of the matchup between Dan and Mason. I think that's gonna be I think that's my one-two right there. Not even, I think, that is my one-two. Dan.
SPEAKER_01I mean, dude, Dan's got one on Mason and Mason's got one on Dan. This is a rubber match.
SPEAKER_00This is the this is a tie break, and both seem to be healthy. Um both seem to be running really, really well. So I'm going Dan Mason. Uh after that, I am I have. I'm gonna I'm gonna give this one to Remy LaRue at three. And then I know I had mentioned this earlier. I th I really believe Christian Allen can put in a really good effort on this one. I think the technical downhill is gonna be tough for him to maintain his spot. Like we were saying, you can win it on the uphill, you can lose it on the downhill. Um, I think this I think he'll be able to hold, but I I don't think he's gonna be quite as complete as Dan and Mason, but still gonna deliver fireworks. I think uh, you know, in classic Christian form, we're gonna see secondary bet. I I guarantee you he puts a KOM on that first climb. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Um Yeah, I this is a really difficult one for me. My team USA is obviously Dan Mason, Christian. Um that's three. And my fourth is gonna be um Zach Erickson. Zach Erickson.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, Zach, I think Zach Erickson gets on the team. But I think uh my other secondary prediction is that Aries is gonna be pushing Christian to the finish and he's gonna finish fifth. So I know we're not doing one through five, but I think that it's gonna be a tight battle um between those two. I don't know if Christian's gonna fall that far back.
SPEAKER_01I think that it's just like my my thought is like I don't know. It's gonna be very interesting. I I I it's Christian's one of those people that can lead wire to wire or or not. I mean, maybe he tires out in the second lap. I don't know if it's gonna happen, though.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna be Aerobically, I don't think he's going to tire. No, you know what, dude.
SPEAKER_01If everybody could just cross the finish line holding hands, it'd be that'd be great. Oh, yeah. Then sport doesn't exist anymore. And we're all I just like everybody too much to pick this one. This is a really hard one for me to pick. I like I said, I have no idea, and uh that's where we're gonna I think we're we're gonna pause it because I gotta jump on for Taylor Tuttle.
SPEAKER_00Sound sounds good to me.
SPEAKER_01All right, hang
Weather Livestream Details And Final Notes
SPEAKER_01on. All right, Steve. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast, dude. As Sam Rice would say, I've been here the whole time. Sorry guys, we had to hop off. We had to uh I had to interview Taylor Tuttle for her previous interview, and we are back.
SPEAKER_00Or as I keep on forgetting, Taylor PV.
SPEAKER_01Taylor oh fuck, I said Taylor Tuttle again. You just you just did, but you were good on her interview. I I did say PV on the interview. You did, you did. You were good about it then. All right. Uh that's all that matters. Don't want to get canceled right now. Uh no, we'll we'll correct ourselves. Um yeah, so that was good. Um, we talked about the men, we talked about the women's field. Anything in closing that you think we need to get into?
SPEAKER_00Um, I had mentioned the weather. Uh I think that there is I mean, so far it's looking like uh it's gonna be raining um Saturday and Sunday. Not super heavy and not super high percentages, but I do think that there's going to be it's gonna be wet. Um, even if it is just a little bit, that obviously changes up the dynamic from people who have that pure speed, they're gonna struggle out there a little bit if they don't have familiarity or comfort on the trail. So again, just rehashing the same thing that we've been saying, but again, I just want to say one more time. I'm really excited about this race. I being an East Coaster and while I moved out to Colorado so that I could get more access to the outdoors, because unfortunately, where I grew up in uh in Maryland didn't quite have the access that I wanted, I there's always a soft spot in my heart for the East Coast and the type of runners that it produces. And I think it would be I would love to be wrong. I I would love to get for someone who is in that New England area or in the mid-Atlantic region to come out and be the person who upsets the entire podium and is a new story for waiting for us to talk about. But I just think it's really special that, again, they are are uh the New England area is finally getting the light on it that it deserves because it's a really special place. I've been up there several times as a kid and used to fly out there for work and get to the chance to explore some of those trails and never been in Sunnepe per se, but uh I've been around there in the whites. I've been in upstate New York, I've I've been uh around Massachusetts. So I'm definitely familiar with that. And growing up just outside of Baltimore, um, there's a lot of crossover there, and I'm just really happy that the the world is waking up to the type of challenge and beauty that is offered on the East Coast. Dude, that was beautiful. Like I said, I'm a wordsmith.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you are a wordsmith. Yeah, no, I think um I feel the same way. I'm happy that the East Coast has another U.S. Mountain Riding Championship. I'm also happy, dude, we get two new champions this year. This is really exciting. I mean, yes, it's an off year, still gonna be super exciting. Uh, with and there's gonna be fireworks at this race, no doubt. It's gonna be fun to follow. Um, I just wanted one thing. I was going through the men, or the sorry, the women's field. And while we did talk about the men, we kind of I did I just didn't want to gloss over some of the women as well uh that I do want to end up end out with. Um so a few names as well that I did want to give shine to. Amy Kohler, who runs um uh she lives in North Penn, or in sorry, in Pennsylvania, um who runs the running kind, uh Megan Lacey, who's uh mainstay as well on the scene. Jamie Bru Brusa, Jamie Brusa is from Montana and uh Cirque Series athlete. You see her all the time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've I've heard her name tossed around more than a few times.
SPEAKER_01Uh and then there's a a good mix of athletes that are on the trail team for this year, um, and athletes that were on the trail team for last year. Uh Kyla Christopher Moody was on the trail team elite last year. Um, Sophie Wright was on from Alaska, is on the trail team last year as well. Um, and Abby Stone, who's on the trail team this year. Um, so definitely a few of those athletes that are gonna compete and compete hard. So those are some names I just didn't want to gloss over and made sure we we gave them some some shine as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think the great thing about this is that there's an opportunity to learn a new story out there. Um, whether it's someone who ends up in the top five or you know on the podium that we didn't predict, or if it's just a great story that we learned about race day and ends up in the top ten, and it's someone we can keep an eye on going into the future. But uh we we mentioned this earlier on. The women's side of racing has just been so compelling, and it's really it's really cool to see that there's an opportunity for someone to step up and grab this race by the horns, uh, especially with the with the lack of an Ana Gibson or a Lauren Gregory being there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That is well said. Yeah, it's gonna be, I mean, either way, it's gonna be really fun. So uh guys, some ending notes. I'd say the first and foremost, men's race starts at 9 a.m. Women's race starts at 9.15. Uh it's gonna be Eastern Standard Time. Um in the show notes, there's gonna be a link uh to the commentating. I'm gonna be commentating, uh, as well as Rachel to my check will be there commentating. Um we are gonna be well, okay, this is redundant on the commentary team. Um, but that'll kick actually off at 8 o'clock uh Eastern Standard Time. That's 6 a.m. for you, mountain time, folks. Uh, so good luck with that. Um put yourself a strong cup of coffee before your Sunday run and uh yeah, or get your run early. Um definitely don't, you know, definitely tune in. The link is gonna be in the show notes. We'll be on YouTube live. Um check it out. It's gonna be way different from last year. We're gonna have way more um Starlinks and cameras, and just uh it's just gonna be and I've got lots of little tidbits and good info to fill the dead air with in case we have any dead air in the race.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you can also act like me and just dog ear it, come back to it after your long run and just keep, you know, cover those ears, cover those eyes as you're getting online so that you don't get any uh uh results revealed to you prior to watching. But the live stream, even a few hours late, is just as compelling as if you were watching it right then and there. I love it. All right, it's a good place to put it. Um, as we close out, Steve, tell people what you do. Uh so guys, I so uh I'm a commercial insurance advisor, and I know that uh insurance is probably everyone's least favorite topic. Um, but my job is to come in here and help people out with something that they don't enjoy talking about. And it's my job to make their life a little bit easier. But the reason why I bring it up is because I also specifically work with uh outdoor brands, uh recreation areas, retailers, and I also work with uh environmental nonprofits to help come with uh insurance solutions for them. So um, if anyone is interested in taking a look at their coverage, making sure that they're properly protected for their business, um, they can reach out to me at steve.taylor at glenwoodins.com, or you can find me at Glenwood Insurance's uh insurance's website. Um I also have a phone number that they can reach out to. Um if they are if anyone's interested, they can reach out to me at 970-384-8338.
SPEAKER_01And this will be in the show notes. So if you guys want to talk to Steve, uh find him in the show notes as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I just appreciate getting to come in and talk about my favorite thing. This is this is so much fun. And also I got to sneak in a little run this morning with you. It's true. Yeah, dude, it was the first time in a little bit. I'm glad I know it's been a it's been probably two months, uh, I think since our last run up Rampart Range Road, but you were saying it and I I meant to double down on it, but yeah, we you can push me, I can push you. Um I you might need to get a wheelbarrow wheelbarrel for me at some point, but uh I think uh I think having you as a training partner is a a distinct advantage for both of us, for both of us.
SPEAKER_01It's fun. It's definitely fun. Yeah, it's nice to have somebody tall to push me on the clients.
SPEAKER_00And it's it's nice to have someone short sneak through my legs on the uphills. So that's also really.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, Steve, thank you so much. Uh everybody, thank you for tuning in. I think we covered all the good stuff as far as uh like when the race starts and how to tune in and all that stuff. It'll be in the show notes. Uh appreciate you all for tuning in and uh yeah, thanks.
