The Steep Stuff Podcast
Your Source for all Things Trail, Mountain & Skyrunning
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Elisa Morin - Pre Sunapee Scramble (U.S. Mountain Running Championship) Interview
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The fastest races can be the most revealing, especially when they’re your first start back after injury. We sit down with a Quebec-based Brooks athlete ahead of the Sunapee Scramble to talk about what it really feels like to open a season in June, how to race without a perfect taper, and why “no pressure” still turns into a hard charge once the gun goes off. If you love trail running, mountain running, and the messy reality of rebuilding fitness, this one is packed with practical detail.
We break down the Sunapee Scramble course like racers do: a two-loop format, a brutally steep first climb, and the kind of conditions where mud can erase even the best plans. You’ll hear how packs form early, why staying connected without leading can be a winning move, and how power hiking habits can help or hurt depending on grade and terrain. We also get into gear decisions for wet trails, including shoe options, traction, and the reality that sometimes the course is slick no matter what you wear.
Then we zoom out to the bigger season. Broken Arrow brings altitude concerns, confidence questions, and a reminder that mindset matters as much as physiology when you’re climbing near 3,000 meters. We talk scheduling, world championship goals, and training sessions that actually translate to steep trail performance: sustained threshold climb efforts, smart downhill work for eccentric strength, and pacing choices that keep you racing strong late. If you enjoy the show, subscribe, share it with a training partner, and leave a quick review so more trail runners can find us.
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Seta Socks Sponsor Break
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Season Opener After Injury
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so excited to chat with you. Lots to talk about. I'd say first and foremost, uh how how are you excited? How excited are you for uh the Sun of Pea Scramble this weekend for Matthew?
SPEAKER_01Uh I'm quite I'm really excited. I'm quite nervous too because it would be like my opening race. So it's really late in the season to say that uh in June, but it will be yeah, the first race of my season, so I'm really excited for that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, very cool. How has uh training been going? How has the kind of the taper been kind of going into this?
SPEAKER_01Uh it's more that I'm coming back from injuries, so I don't really have a taper, and Sunapi is like a short race, so I don't think you really need a taper for for that. So the training is going well since one month, I would say. And it's also for that, it's only my opening uh race um this uh this Sunday. So it's just really to check how how I am, the shape, and hopefully it will be a good race for me.
SPEAKER_02Very cool,
Taper Thoughts For Short Racing
SPEAKER_02very cool. How is the uh Brooks house? I I was talking to your teammate Courtney Coppinger, and she said you guys have like a giant Brooks house for the Brooks athletes.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like just huge. It's huge. I mean, we are in fact we have only like three athletes to to rent this uh this weekend. Dan, Courtney and I, and hopefully with me if it's feel better, but yeah, the house is just huge. I think there was like more than like I think 16 beds and Sona, Jim, Jacuzzi. I was like, okay, two to kitchen, like plenty of place.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, that's amazing. That's a good yeah, that's
Life Inside The Brooks House
SPEAKER_02a good way to uh and what is it today? Today's only Wednesday, so you got plenty of time to relax and enjoy yourself and uh yeah, get to get to have you ever been on the course? Have you ever played on the course at all or been out this way?
SPEAKER_01Uh uh yeah, I did uh I did the race last year.
SPEAKER_02Oh, did you? Oh, you were in I I don't know why I didn't have that on my notes. Oh, right.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, but I think I just finished maybe top tens. Yeah, top ten, I think.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's just because yeah, in Ultra Sign Up, I think I I have like three or four or five different profile profiles, and it's all zero, like zero percent. So yeah, I need to to check that. But yeah, I I did it last year, so I quite know the the the race, and I'm expecting like tomorrow to just do a recon of the second loop.
SPEAKER_02And then well, first of all, I am so sorry that I missed that. I don't know how I uh ultra sideup, and I checked itro. I was literally on your UTMB index in Itra just before this, and yeah, I gotta give Tom some some crap for not putting this in on the UTMB index. Um all right, well, let's talk about the course. I think that's a great thing to kind of get into the fact that it is a two-loop course. You do have, you know, I I was gonna
Knowing The Course From Last Year
SPEAKER_02get into your background in the sense where you know, last year you're top 10 at OCC, you're great also in the Mountain Classic distance, top 10 as well at worlds. This type of course, the Mountain Classic, is your bread and butter, it's your jam. Um, would you say that's your favorite style of racing?
SPEAKER_01I don't know if it's my favorite. I just know that I'm quite really good on this type of race because it's short. Coming from a road background, uh, it's really nice to put the the speed uh that this type of course deserves. And yeah, but yeah, I think it suits me really well, but I know that I need to improve on just the hard climb, like 500 for yeah, 500 meters, 400 meters of climbing. But um I don't know if it's my favorite type of race, but I know that I'm pretty good on this uh on this type of like mounted classic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02How how do you think, especially with now you said it's been about a month of training, kind of coming off of injury and things like that? How how and and a season opener for you, how will you kind of approach the race? Are you gonna are you gonna kind of key off other athletes? Like for instance, Taylor is an amazing climber, Courtney is an amazing climber and descender, a lot of really strong athletes in this race as well. A lot of athletes that you've actually raced in the past, specifically like Courtney at Worlds. Um, any person you plan to key off of, will you run your own race? Like, what is your strategy more or less?
SPEAKER_01I think uh I'm going to try to follow. Uh, because for sure I can say, yeah, I'm going to be conservative and all of that, but I love competition and I know how this type of race works. It's short, uh, it's yeah, like two-loop, up, down, up, down. So, and especially like last year when we when we did this race during the yeah, the first climb, we are like a close pack, so I think it will be the same. So just to try to keep up the pace, I know it's going to be hard in the first climb. I'm not I know for me it's really the first climb that it's harder than the second one. Um so just to try to stay with the group, and I mean if it's if it's if I'm feel it's if I'm feeling okay, I will just stay with the group, or if I just need to slow down, I will I will slow down. I mean, it's not like a Q race for me just to see where I am. So I mean, no pressure, but for sure when I will be on the start line, I will uh I'm I'm pretty sure I will have a fast uh a fast start.
SPEAKER_02Anything you learned from last year on like where to make moves? Because this is a tricky course, right? Usually, I mean we learned last year, like Ali was leading the women on the first loop, and then Anna, uh I guess it was some somewhere on the second climb, was able to kind of take control of the race and and take the win. So usually the person leading the first loop might not be the person winning the race. And I I've noticed on the men's side too, it seems like Dan and Remy and a lot of other uh men have kind of taken note on maybe you can kind of hang back just a little bit and maybe assert yourself more on the second climb to make moves to to possibly go for a win or to go for a podium spot. Do you have you learned anything from last year to be able to kind of implement you know into the race going into this year?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think you're right,
Two-Loop Strategy And Pack Dynamics
SPEAKER_01in fact, because I think when I finished the first climb, maybe I don't think I was in the top ten, and I just kept like two or three uh women in the second loop. Uh maybe also because the the the second part of the climb of the second loop, it's more technical, like two terrains that we have a lot in uh in Quebec. So maybe it's more easier. But I think I think yeah, it's a good strategy. Um I mean you need to go fast at the big at the start, it's like if you just want to stay with the pack, but you can be like at the end of the pack. And I think what it's what I want to try to do this year, because I'm a really good power hiker. So I I have tendency to start like hiking or power hiking really soon in a race or in a climb, even if I I think I will be faster like in running. So maybe like this year, even in the first loop, just try to run as much as can because it's really steep at the beginning, really in the in the ski pass, and after we just have the gravel pass, so the elevation grade it's uh it's uh it's less. So just yeah, yeah, I think yeah, just save energy for the second loop, and hopefully it will be less muddy than last year. So it was also that last year to just to to keep the pace in the in the descent, even if it's uh even if the conditions are not really great. But yeah, I would say, yeah, I have energy for the second loop.
SPEAKER_02Very cool. That makes I mean it's perfect sense.
Mud, Weather, And Shoe Picks
SPEAKER_02Now it's gonna be interesting. The weather, it might be really muddy this year. It's hard to say. It looks like it's gonna be a rainy day, uh, kind of like last year. We'll see how much mud is kind of in there and and what what it does, I guess, in the days leading up. What kind of shoes? What shoes are you gonna be wearing?
SPEAKER_01Uh I don't know. I I took the uh the catamont agil, the really because I think the plug are really important and I like that they are closer to the ground and really aggressive and really light. And I also have the Cascadia Elite, so I will, I mean, I will have the two uh the two shoes uh Sunday, so I will see, depending on the mud. But I mean if it's really muddy, even if you have a really good shoe with plug, it's not going to change a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_00So let's see on Sunday.
SPEAKER_02That's very true.
Prize Money Versus Smart Effort
SPEAKER_02What would it what would it mean to you to win a race like this? Because this is, I mean, you've had so much success on the on the international scene, and uh, you know, you've got an amazing resume. So what would it mean to you? Because there's a lot of prize money for this one.
SPEAKER_01This one's not bad. Yeah, I mean the I mean, yeah, the price money is important, but I'm not I mean, if I'm if if if uh if I feel that I have to push too much too hard to be at the front, I will not do it even if the price money it's uh it's really nice. But for sure, I mean winning this race, it would be like to to just check that the back of training it's really good, the shape it's really good. Uh like broken arrow, it's in two weeks, so it will be like uh a really good result uh before broken arrow. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it would be like yeah, really good result because the other competitors are are really uh really good too. But um I'm I would say I'm not coming for win the race. I mean, it's really yeah, it's weird to say that that to be in the top athlete and and to say yeah winning the race is not my my goal. For sure, if I can, I will take the opportunity. But just to I would say what I want to do is at least have do a better time than last year, and it would be a f uh a really good race if I like only do that just a bit of a better time.
Broken Arrow And Altitude Anxiety
SPEAKER_02Oh, I like that. I mean, so you're also signed up. Uh I I did see that on Ultra Sign Up that you were signed up also for Broken Arrow to go race the Ascent in 23k. What's the excitement level for that? I mean, that's a very that's another extremely competitive race with a lot of prize money on the line. Or both of I mean both of them really. So what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01Uh I'm in fact I'm really scared with the altitude.
SPEAKER_02Really? Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, because I mean with with Brooke, we went in uh training camp in Hawaii and we we we made one uh one uh one trail uh in a volcano, so we just finished at like 2,000 uh meters of elevation and I was like just dying to just reach the top and would just look like Anna, Kourtney, and Sydney like just jogging and and yeah, just jogging, smiling and talking. I was like, I'm going to die. It's going to be awful. So so I mean I'm really exciting, and because just I'm really exciting to leave the to leave this this event. For sure, I want to to be performant at this event, but I mean it's will be just one week before Western State at the same place. There is the trail con, so it will be just a huge trail event. So I'm really excited for that, but for the rest, like really the ascendant of 23k. Yeah, it's really the altitude. So I don't know how I'm going to react for that because I I don't train in altitude, I just do like uh eat training to try to stimulate a little bit my uh my uh blood pressure and blood plasma. But I I don't know. I'm really exciting, but I know it's going to be hard.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right. I think you'll be fine. How do you I mean you had a how high was Khan Frank last year? That could I mean it was a little bit obviously lower than Broken Arrow, but it wasn't it was like higher up, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01Oh I don't know. I think may I think it's was I don't know, I think Conference may be one 1,000 meter and you finish maybe Yeah, and you finish at 2,000, so there is really a huge a huge difference here.
SPEAKER_02So a bit lower, yeah. At Broken Arrow, what tops out at like nine, I guess 9,000 feet at Wishy Should.
SPEAKER_013,000. Yeah, 3,000 meter, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it's it's higher, it's a good bit higher. It's funny, I I so I live at 7,000 feet in Colorado, so that's why I always like, I'm like, oh, it's not that high. It's not 11,000 feet, but yeah, no, it's it's always tough when you go back to sea level to uh for the vice versa for the sea level athletes to go
Racing Calendar And Worlds Goals
SPEAKER_02up high. What else uh do you have on your schedule for this year?
SPEAKER_01Uh I have the QMT. It's um for us the can uh Canadian Citizen is the uh short trail and long trail uh national championship. So I'm doing the 50k and it will be the one of the qualification races for the next uh world in Cape Town. Uh and it will be like a huge event because it's also uh host of the Golden Trail series for North America. Um and I'm doing Sierzinal. Sierzinal, it's yeah, it's yeah, I'm really excited for that. I think it's really the race that can suit me too. And I have a by UTMB race to for OCC next year for to take my qualification for that. And for sure, défi des couleurs, the final of the WMRA for uh uh uphill and classic.
SPEAKER_02Let me ask you a question. If you because I I know there's you you would said there is the 50k qualification, which would set you up for short trail for 2027, then are you more interested in racing short trail or the mountain classic for worlds?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think I would be interesting to do the short trail.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, uh, I mean, uh I I know that I I can really decide because I with the top tens that I did last year, normally with the rule for the Team Canada, I already have my place for the for the classic in uh 2027. So but yeah, I really want to do the the short trail. So it's really it's going to depend of the schedule, but in my mind, I'm like, okay, maybe if it's the Friday and the Sunday, maybe it's possible, but but uh let's see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, I just find it really interesting because you you're
Why Road Speed Transfers
SPEAKER_02a rare athlete in the sense where some athletes come up from the mountain classic and try to do more 50k, 60k distances and kind of struggle. Where if you've had a lot of success, especially on the international scene, what do you attribute that to? Do you think it's just really good training, just things click for you, you've got nutrition figured out? What what what do you think uh is the reason why you have such good range to be able to do that?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think for the class, yeah, for the classic race, I think it's with my road background because I I really like like the half-marathon distance, so it's like between one and one hour 30 minutes, so it's almost the same time as uh as a classic uh race. So I think it's for that that I know I really know this type of effort. So I think for that I'm really good. And for the 50k, uh I mean I also um I also trained for marathon uh before, so I'm used to that. And I mean I uh I don't know. I I think I already um also have a really strong mind, so I can I can go deep in the like say in the in the pain, but for sure, but I I think it's easier to like to train for short trail, fifth 30 to 50k, and and in this training to do shorter distance uh than focus on the classic and um VK and try to do 50k. So me my training is more focused on short trail. So after you just need to do like more speed, some up uh up repetition, and it would be like easier to be good at uh at classic too.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
Workouts For Steep Climbs
SPEAKER_02Did you do, I guess getting ready for this? I know you said you had more a bit more of a condensed build, but what did your workouts look like? Did you do like it seems like a lot of coaches that I've talked to, a lot of athletes, their coaches have had them doing like threshold efforts, uh up steep terrain, coming down, clearing lactate after a couple minutes, repeating that to try and simulate the two climbs, things like that. Do you get into that type of stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm not uh I'm not still here in my training currently, for sure. I mean, I'm my uh David is my coach, so for sure I do a lot of ill stride. I mean, uh after everyone is like ill stride. Uh I made like some yeah, 20 minutes really at one hour effort, so it's really like simulation of the first climb, in fact. Uh but I'm I'm not going to say that I'm just like training to be back at my best. So I'm not it's not really like a training focus on uh on tsunami, but uh for sure the best is just to simulate to be in uh like 15 to 25 until a 30 uh grade and uh just try to make like between 20 to 30 minute effort to simulate like one one up and let's in the downhill because it's not a part that I worked, and I know that the eccentric efforts can be really hard, but it's only like one hour and a half of effort, so even if it's on the on the quad, it should be uh should be okay.
Wrap-Up And Live Stream Plans
SPEAKER_02Very cool. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. I don't want to take too much of your time. This was a great pre-race conversation. Uh, absolutely rooting for you. I am so sorry that I screwed up that you were you were in the race last year, and I somehow missed that. Um, but yeah, thank you so much. Cannot wait. I'm gonna be on the live stream, so I can't wait to uh call your race and uh hopefully have a pre-race conversation or post-race conversation afterwards. And uh yeah, just want to say thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you to having me. Have a good end of the day. Bye.
