The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Broken Arrow 23K Race Companion
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$102,200 on the line, a Nike livestream, staggered elite starts, and a start list so deep we joke we’d need a hundred pre-race interviews to cover it. Broken Arrow 23K is lining up like a mini all-star event for trail running and mountain running, and we’re here to call the shots before the gun goes off.
We dig into why this prize purse matters and why we want payouts like this to become the benchmark for marquee races that draw international talent. Then we get practical: 14.25 miles, about 4,500 feet of climbing, a lot of fast running, and the late-race terrain where things can finally get spicy. We also talk broadcast and logistics, including the staggered starts for elite women and men and what that means for how the race unfolds and how you should watch it.
From there, it’s pure storyline season. On the women’s side we’re fired up about Ninka Brinkman’s return, McKenna Morley’s step up into a brutally stacked field, and the long list of podium-level threats who could turn this into a total coin flip. On the men’s side we look at the tacticians and the burners, what happened last year, and why Elhousine Elazzaoui, Patrick Kipngeno, and a rising American contingent make the tactics just as interesting as the fitness. Finally, we lock in our top-five picks for both races and explain exactly what would have to happen for our calls to be right.
If you’re watching Broken Arrow 23K live, listen first, make your own picks, and come back to tell us what we got wrong. Subscribe, share this with a trail running friend, and leave a review so we can keep bringing the hype with better and better coverage.
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Sponsor Break And Gear Talk
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Why Broken Arrow Feels Unprecedented
SPEAKER_01Steve Taylor, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
SPEAKER_00How's it going, my friend? I am doing well. I'm I'm I'm energized. I'm feeling good, and I am ready to talk about potentially the most exciting race this entire weekend.
SPEAKER_01I need some of your energy because I'm losing my voice right now. Uh this is our third third go. Uh, this one is for the Brokenero 23K. Probably gonna be the most competitive race ever assembled on American soil if everybody shows up. I mean, dude, this the the just the I can name 50 people off the top of my head that can do really well here, just in the women's field, dude. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Look looking at looking at the signup list, there every single name on both the men's and women's side in the top, like the first 20 names that you look at on either side has the capability of podium here, podiuming here.
SPEAKER_01I I just want to put one thing out there. If anyone is wondering why I didn't do pre-race interviews this year, just look at the ultra sign up start list. Who am I gonna like I can't have one person and not have another, you know what I'm saying? I kind of want to have everybody, and then it gets weird because we just have a hundred pre-race interviews. So it was very hard to have that conversation have you know to even so I was like, I'm not even gonna do it this year.
SPEAKER_00No, it's not it's not worth your effort. You're gonna lose your voice, and then you're gonna be sad when you're out of broken arrow and you can't do your uh chair side chats.
SPEAKER_01I'm so excited for those chairside chats, it's gonna be fun. Speaking of which, Cetus, everybody. Check out Cetus, the official foot care partner of uh UTMB and Western States, and on top of that, the official they're the official insole partner of uh Broken Arrow. Not sock partner, insole. Uh check out the Trail Three Feet, holding them up right here if you're watching on YouTube. Insoles, my favorite. Um yeah, check them out. Very spacious and very comfortable. And also check out the uh well the the Wamsley sock, which I'm wearing right now. Um, the uh run in Atomic Comfort. Good stuff. Do you wear any of the socks I gave you? Hey, better.
SPEAKER_00I I hand wash them in between cycles because I don't want to have to do a whole load of laundry to re-wear them. I'm not even joking. I'm yeah, no, I've uh I've worn I've worn them each at least three times at this point um over the course of my tweets. This is a great ad. What do you think so far? Because you've never worn them before. So I had never worn them before. I'm uh I am a huge fan. I will say I typically wear a different brand. They're usually a wool sock. Um, I will say for my faster workouts and for my long runs, um, now that it's getting a little bit warmer out, uh, I have been wearing these at least twice a week, whether they be the uh the the Walmsley sock or you even got me one of the winter socks, it it still breathes really well. And the issue that I have with uh more polyester-based socks typically is that they slide around the shoe, but they've got a little bit of grip in there, so they hold exceptionally well.
SPEAKER_01That's a fantastic ad, Steve. All right, back to broken air.
The $102K Prize Purse Debate
SPEAKER_01Uh guys, $102,200 on the line, $51,000 per gender, $30,000 to M1, $12,000, sorry, $30,000 to M1 and F1, uh, $12,000 to M2, F2, $6,000 to M3, F3, and it goes down from there. Um absolutely bananas prize money. What do you think about this prize purse? This is this is nuts.
SPEAKER_00Well, it it's nuts, but I I don't want us to have to say that this is nuts. I want this to become the new norm for marquee events like this. Uh, and while it may seem nuts because we're comparing it to races that are still building up that prize purse. I know we made a big deal about how great it was that uh Son of East Scramble was giving out 10,000 to the winners, which I think is well deserved, well-earned. Um I still think that this should start to be the new benchmark. I mean, we're I was just listening uh to the results from uh uh Comrades. And Comrades obviously is a huge road race, one of the largest in uh one of the largest altars or the largest altar in the world, I believe. But the prize purse for the winner, I think, comes out to $120,000 US equivalency for both the men's and the women's winners, which I don't know if we're ever gonna quite get there. Maybe, maybe we do, but I think the broken arrow prize purse is what the the benchmarks should be going forward for events like this that are gonna be drawing the type of international talent that they are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know. I think it's I'm so curious to see like so many I'm fumbling all over my words right now. Uh ACG did such a good job with Gorge. I'm so curious to see like what they do here. Like, are they gonna paint like the gondola like orange and white? Like what what are they gonna do? You know, I'm very curious to see kind of like what they what they come out with for the spray, like for the specific race.
SPEAKER_00I if they they're either gonna go orange and white and they're gonna paint the town with that with those colors, or I mean, I would love to see the meow meow colorway coming in and everyone's getting assaulted with the blue and the white. I I was a big fan of that colorway.
SPEAKER_01Oh that's I I'd like to hear it. It's interesting. I I can't, yeah, dude. The prize money thing, I know we had talked about we had a conversation about this in the past, so I'll move on from it, but I just can't like $30,000 for I don't know, an hour and a half to two hours of work. That's not so bad. That's pretty good. You know, you can't beat it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you mean you're gonna get uh you're gonna get a half a year's salary in one go? Sure. Go for it.
Start Times Course Stats Livestream
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So this race taking off Sunday, June the 21st, 2026, at 8 a.m. Um, so this is a different type of year. So we are gonna have uh staggered starts here, 8 a.m. for the elite women, 8.20 for the elite men, 8.30 for tier three, whatever that I guess like a competitive age group, winner group, and then they're kind of staggered off from there. Um so it's gonna be a little bit more broken up, which will be great. This race, along with the Ascent in 46K, will be live streamed thanks to Nike on the Nike YouTube channel. The course itself, 14.25 miles, 4,500 feet of vertical, that's 22.9k and uh 1,372 meters. This is the WRMA long distance race as well. So it is gonna be a cherry on top of what's already been a fantastic weekend.
SPEAKER_00So I'm excited to see what you know what are these also getting selected for uh for a defi de uh de couloir?
SPEAKER_01No, only the uh 2026 uh USATF uphill will pick itself. Okay. I don't know how many athletes will be selected, though. That is something I did not look into.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01I'd guess two two to four, somewhere in that range.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, regardless. This is you you can't get a better field assembled on either the men's and or women's side. I think there's maybe one or two names uh that are potentially missing, but other than that, this is this is the fireworks race right here. This is the one that everyone wants to tune in for. There's a reason why Nike's uh focusing on it on their live stream. I I'm gonna be glued to my screen.
SPEAKER_01I'm there's a lot of
Women’s Field Storylines And Returnees
SPEAKER_01storylines, man. The first one is is Ninky Brinkman on the women's side will be making her return. For those of you who don't know that name or might be new to the sport, Ninke is both a road and trail athlete, and uh, I'd say I'd call this a return. She was so dominant in 2022, um, winning the Golden Trail World Series and so many races within that series in 2022, um, including racing on American soil. She had great races at the Pikes Peak Ascent as well as Flagstaff Sky Peaks. Um, absolute, like just a I'd put her up there as a potentially generational talent because of her ability to marry like on the marathon as well. Um has not really been back on trails for a long time, dealing with some injuries. She did just race at Zagama, um, not in the long race. Obviously, she won the vertical race and then doubled back uh to the European Uphill Champs where she got, I believe it was 10th place, and didn't quite do what she thought she was going to do there. Probably not her level of uh performance. Um so it's gonna be interesting to see how she does it. One at altitude, and two um at something like this, where the American audience, and her first time kind of in front of the American audience in a long time. Uh another storyline is McKenna Morley stepping up, dude. Yeah. McKenna Morley is dangerous and like so good. Um, unbeaten so far. Nobody's nobody's even come close. Uh usually runs up there with the guys and uh usually beats a lot of them too. Of course, record addict of the Canyons, 50k. I I yeah, I I really think uh you gotta remember though, this is a little bit of a step-up in competition. We'll see how she stacks up against so many other insane athletes. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anyone else that sticks out to you? Oh, sorry, hold on. Sorry, I was uh focusing on McKenna Morley. I was also gonna say, I mean, also just had one of the great races um in 50k distance at uh Canyons earlier this year with Lauren Gregory and Molly Sidell. Um that was just that was so much excitement to watch right there. Um, in terms of some of the other names, uh, let me go through. I will uh I've been keeping an eye on a few different people within this race. Sorry, I'm losing my list. I apologize. There we go. Okay, so McKenna Morley, Lauren Gregory is obviously in here. That's gonna be a huge name uh to keep an eye on, Anna Gibson. Um wanna keep an eye on Maya Rail. Uh obviously just had a great day out at Sun of P Scramble. Um we like we were talking about, we have a few different um, we have a few different people who were, I'm gonna call them Sun of P graduates or uh Sun of P alumni. But we've got Elisa Marin, um Maya Rail, Rena Schwartz, Taylor Tuttle all coming out. Uh can't those are those are gonna be some great names to have in the mix, but Ninka Brinkman is really my my storyline. She did, she did win the uh VK over at Zagama um earlier this year. So she has kind of broken back into and given her soft launch uh into trail again, obviously not racing the marquee distance there, but I think she was building up a little bit of confidence and getting herself ready to put in an effort at what is gonna be one of the biggest races of the year, especially on American soil. Um I did you mention Janelle Lynx at all?
SPEAKER_01Not yet. Sorry, you know what? The reason I turned my head away is because I was scrolling through Ultra Sign Up because I can remember doing a post on the Broken Arrow 23K field in like December when they already opened, like who had already signed up, who's gonna be there. And one of the names that was on there that just jogged my memory that wasn't is uh Sarah Alonzo. And I don't believe she's a member of the field right now, so which is a bummer.
SPEAKER_00I hadn't seen anything. I know. Go back and look at the score. Yeah, because if she was on that list, she would be my top three no matter what.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%. You know who is on that list? Kendall Kramer. I don't know if you know. It's another Olympian, just like a Jesse Diggins, Kendall Kramer, I believe, is an Olympic, I think Olympic skier, um, from Palmer, Alaska. So that's another another Olympian on there. Uh so we're just stacking up the Olympians in this race. That's a fun one to keep an eye on. Absolutely. Janelle Lynx, yes, to your point, yes. I did have her on my list of women to watch. Uh Joyce and Girou, Courtney Coppinger, Alisa Morin, Maya Rail, Taylor Tuttle, uh real last name Taylor PV, uh Sidney Peterson, Jasmine Louther, Yield Ling, Ali Avatar. Ali pops up in the chat. Ali is that's Ali Mac, guys. Um, new name, or you know, uh obviously Ali got married, so her last name changed to Avatar, and it's gonna be so excited. You know, multiple time champion at the 23K. Ali is so dangerous, such a good athlete. Um, obviously has already had one, I think believe one tune-up race already, uh, kind of in the uh Pacific Northwest area outside of Spokane. Um, Spokane or Idaho, like Corda Leone area. Um, Ali's, I don't know, like always so good and so uh so talented. So really excited to have her back. Uh Alicia Vargo as well. Um we did talk about Sidney Peterson, Lara Hamilton, who was on the Australian Olympic team for schemo this year, um, another trail runner, Alexa Aragon. I'm very excited to see Alexa in this race. Um Notre Dame steepler, obviously. She's already won one time, one year, won the Cirque Series overall. Uh, always a contender in the Cirque series generally. Um last year had top ten results both in the vertical race as well as the 23K. And the list continues, dude. Erica Flowers, uh, Lucy Copla, Amanda Kozlowski, Oakley Olsen, Flannery Davis, Madelina Floria, who we will talk about because she's a potential contender to win this race, uh, Nellie Clement and Marie Navett, who was sixth in 2025. And I don't know if I could probably talk about like another 50 people.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if uh your co-host has uh given an update on how uh she is doing. Obviously, uh she is in slightly different circumstance, but we want to give a shout-out to Rachel Tomaichek. Um yeah, and just give her give her the best out there. Obviously, she's uh running uh with a plus one. Um so uh hopefully she she's still able to race day of, but that that's still just exciting to have uh a good a good friend of yours out there.
SPEAKER_01No, Rachel's oh, I'm sorry, so Rachel's not gonna be racing. She um had a uh I and I think she talked, she was talked about this on social media, had a an unfortunate uh situation happen health wise at uh a race in France, and uh she's she's hiking, but she's just not running right now uh until the baby comes in a couple months. So yeah. We are not I don't think we're too far away either. The baby I think should be coming in a couple months. So yeah, yeah, Rachel's the best. Um gotcha.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, regardless, glad everything's good.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Um, did I say I think I just went through the list in general. Uh we kind of talked about storylines. Do you want to talk about you
Women’s Top Five Picks And Upsets
SPEAKER_01want to just get into picks? You want to just hop hop into it? Let's just get into the picks. What's your top five?
SPEAKER_00Because I've got some picks. Do you I'm gonna do you mind if you go first on this one? I have a few ideas. I'm not letting yours affect mine, but I'm truly I'm just gonna be, you are you can get in your head a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look, we've done a few of these now, and if you're gonna keep getting inside of my head, I'm gonna have to screw with you.
SPEAKER_01You're funny. Um, okay. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start in fifth place and go up to first. So we'll go top five. I'm gonna go Courtney Coppinger in fifth. I'm gonna go Lauren Gregory fourth. I'm gonna go McKenna Morley in third, Anna Gibson in second, and Joyce Nero uh in first. And I have to be honest with you, I could also see Anna Gibson winning this race. I could see McKenna Morley winning this race. There's a lot of climbing to it. You know, I don't know. I I some of the things I like I love Broken Arrow. I I don't like that they call it the Broken Arrow Sky Race because it's it's a very fast running race. It's not yes, it's not very it's basically, in my opinion, the broken arrow road race in a lot of ways. Because there's a lot of fire road, and it doesn't really get very technical until you get to Shirley Canyon, um, kind of at the end of the loop, and kind of make before you hit your descent on the way down. I Joyce and Yoru uh will struggle sometimes on some technical stuff. Um put in case in point, like some of the uh Japan races and stuff like that. They're highly technical and rooty. Um Anna Gibson. This is just not the case. Yeah, and Ana Gibson just absolutely the same thing, like does not have a problem with technical. McKenna Morley, um this is gonna be her first big test on some of the more technical stuff, but like I can't imagine this is any different than anything she's seen training out of Montana. Um, I think she's training, she was training out of Bozeman, might now be training out of Missoula. Um, and then Lauren Gregory, who's the best technical descender out of the top five I just named. Yeah, Courtney Coppinger. I don't kind of how Courtney Coppinger, dude, like can 100% chop it up with all of these women. Um, don't be surprised to see her outside of the top five. I think she will 100% be in the mix there, um, kind of coming back. And Taylor Tuttle as well, Taylor Peavy, um, another one who has the ability. And Maya, I think Maya's got a good shot to do really well too. 2026 bat running champ. Uh, yeah, this is really hard, dude. It's like a pick'em. I have just I have very little ability to control, like, you know, I have no idea. So shoot shooting fish in a barrel right now. Literally, yeah. It's who who do you I I McKenna morally is very strong. I and I think Anna, I I think when we see how Anna does in the vertical, then we get an idea of how Anna does in the 23k, right? And maybe it gives us a better idea. But McKenna is just like everything she's touched, it turns to gold, and she's very strong. So I'm very looking forward to some of those matchups, you know. And also, you gotta remember too, McKenna has not been beaten by a woman yet. How does she do on trails when she gets into a little adversity? Will we see, you know, will she be very stable and strong? Will will she worry and panic a little bit? I don't know. You know, uh that's that's some uh we'll see.
SPEAKER_00I don't think so, but yeah. I I have a tough time believing that the competition is gonna get in her head. Um, I think the only thing that would get to her is the course itself. Again, it's gonna be it's runnable climbing, um, which I think is really gonna play to her strengths, and I think you'll see that reflected in my picks. Um, but I I don't think the competition is what's gonna break her on this one. Not not because there's no talent here, there's an exceptional amount of talent in this pool. Um, it's just it's it's hard to imagine someone who's got the pedigree as her is gonna let something like that really get in her head.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um there might be, sorry to interrupt you, there might be some last second change-ups. Like I like Nanki's only been doing vertical races. So we we are not really sure. Like it wasn't confirmed on a lot of other ones. Like I reached out for comment and didn't get anything. Like, I don't really know if she's racing the 23k. She could also be switching to the vertical race because she's been doing vertical races. Yeah. For Nanke. I have that, and that would change everything. We don't we don't really know.
SPEAKER_00So any I I do have a a question. So uh out of all these people, why did you not have Madalina Floria in your top five? You really want to know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I think like not coming from altitude. She's been beaten a few times this year. Like she got beat at Ledro. Um, I think altitude might bother her a little bit. She did have good results last year. She is training on the course. I don't know. I just uh honest oversight on mine. Fair enough. There's no like I there's no like expert uh commentary on that other than um yeah, she'll probably be in the top five, but I just yeah, I'm spot I'm going off vibes, dude. We're we're going off vibes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so you're copying me, is what you're saying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Could very well win the race, though. Don't be surprised if she does. She does perform very well at altitude. I mean, we saw that um, you know, pretty clearly uh at last year's race. Um but I don't know. I I think McKenna, I still think McKenna beats her. Um and I wouldn't be surprised to see Lauren Gregory beat her, too. So, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So for me, I think I'm gonna I'm this is really tough. But I think I'm gonna go Maya Maya Rail going five. I'm gonna take Lauren Gregory going four, Madalena Floria going three, uh two, Ninka Brinkman, and then one, I'm gonna go Anna Gibson. Wow. You think Anna just like, okay, I can see that.
SPEAKER_01I think Anna takes that.
SPEAKER_00Notably, notably, I I left out McKenna Morley. I think she's gonna finish six. I think she's really, really good. I think this is gonna be just an incredibly talented um top five. I think this is I think this is a lot of people's A-race for the year. So, you know, she's been performing exceptionally well leading into this, but I think this is the the real time that again, I don't think competition's getting into her head. I think the field is just primed for the day.
SPEAKER_01The only person I think that has doubled will be 2024. I believe Patrick has won the ascent. And you could check this on me. I think it's Patrick has won the 23k and the ascent in 2024. And I think that's I think you're right. I think that's the only person. I don't think a female has ever won both. Maybe Joyce in 2020. Can you check? Uh let me I can check that. Yeah, I can I can pull that out. Has Joyce in 2024 won both? Because she did beat Anna that year. Sorry, everybody. We just want to make sure we get our factual information.
SPEAKER_00Well, we can edit this out in post.
SPEAKER_01You mean I can edit it out in post.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That's a lot of work, buddy. That's why you pay me the aggressive aggressively medium bucks. That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Uh Joyce won the 23k in 2024, and I believe won the vertical. In 2024. Okay. So 2024 was the last time someone's done both both athletes on the men's and women's side have won both.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So that's right. Joyce did win both.
SPEAKER_01So let's see. I mean, let's see if that happens. I mean, I could I I don't see why not, you know. If Joyce and and and Anna aren't too far apart, you know. And I believe that, you know, if Joyce has done it already, I think Anna could probably do it.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I think so too. And I but for me, I have Joyce going one in the VK, uh, with Anna going two. So they're gonna be yeah, very, very close.
SPEAKER_01I'd think so, yeah. All right, let's move on to the I mean either way, it's a you pick 'em. Like it's like uh who we have no idea, you know? It's uh this is like yeah. I just want to see upsets too. You know, I I want to see I want to see some people that we like we haven't really talked to. Like, how cool would it be if Meyer Rail goes and wins that race, dude? And and oh that'd be how nuts would that be, right? And like, yeah, I I think that there's there's athletes that can can upset the field for sure.
SPEAKER_00So 100%. And I this like what you were saying at the beginning, there are 20 names right off the top of the list that you could just blind blindfold yourself, point, and you go, yeah, that's the winner, and you have a really good reason to do so. That's true, that's true.
Men’s Field Deep Dive And Wild Cards
SPEAKER_01All right, on to the men. El Housine, uh Wazali, Patrick Kippinago, Aries Redding, Taylor Stack, Eddie Owens, Phil Mancariago, Andy Wacker, Liam Myro, Mason Copie, Chris Fargo, Tyler McKinless, Cam Smith, Alex Ricard. This is in no order, by the way. Adrian McDonald, Christian Allen, Grant Culligan, Treasury Mastery, uh, Griffin Briley, Jarrett Gillingham, Paul Knight, Hawk Call, Kieran Nay, Taylor Bowden, um, and my friend, Nick Tusa, who's in the in the field as well.
SPEAKER_00So, dude, I'm this is such a stash. This is bananas. I am tired of just thinking about how good all of these people are and how much like mental acuity I'm going to need to just like be able to lock in and follow all of them.
SPEAKER_01I think El Housine's probably wants to make some money. So I I imagine he's probably probably gonna go, he's gonna go Sizzler. Like, I think he's he's probably really gonna have a good day and is gonna want one. Uh Patrick is well, you know, we do. I feel like Patrick, we just haven't seen a consistent Patrick over the last six months to a year. Um, like last year he did get beat a few times at the Golden Trail races, has struggled a little bit, and then was not the champion in the uphill at um at Worlds. So, you know, maybe he's not as good as he once was. Maybe he's fallen off a little bit. I don't know. I don't know. I think he's still pretty pretty amazing. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win the vertical. This is gonna be a hard race to win. Um, very excited, like we talked about in the vertical Ares Redding. I think it performed extremely well. Taylor Stack, dude. Taylor Stack is is someone who I'm very excited to see race this race. Um Mason Copi as well, you know, the 2026 US Mountain running champion. I think Mason truly proved himself having to, you know, beating Dan and beating Christian, two guys that I think will would match up really well in this race. Christian is in this race. Um, I think Mason will have a great day. Anyone that sticks out to you.
SPEAKER_00Uh one name that we haven't mentioned or that you did not mention was John Rainier. Um has a really strong um road pedigree to his name. And he did attempt to come out and throw down at Black Canyons a few years ago in 100k, but he has a 101 um half marathon to his name. Um, I know he's been toying around in the trail space for the last few years. Um he could be a name that some if if he's uh if he's on, uh he could he's certainly got the leg speed uh to really to really do well here. Also, uh kind of fun name from Sonipe, another uh alum that kind of uh snuck into the top 10 and um I think he finished seventh was Lars Honey. I don't think he's I don't think he's gonna be strong enough, but it's just also nice to see uh some Sonipe names popping in here as well. Um I I think you've really hit a lot of the a lot of the really big names. Um uh complimenting Alicia on this side is Chris Vargo, who also has some really good short trail or at least like 50k results to his name in in the past as well. Sort of a legacy name in the sport. Um I as you can tell, I I kind of like having the historic names uh from running get popped up in here. But I think you've mentioned pretty much all of the ones that uh that I I think needed a lot of spotlight. Obviously, I'm gonna shout out my coach Mason Kobe. I he's been on a heater, but this is easily the toughest field that he's been in.
SPEAKER_01I think it's well said, dude. It's definitely gonna be interesting to see kind of where Mason, dude, I mentioned Cam Smith. Last year, I'll tell you a good story. Cam Smith, Mason, and Taylor Stack knew that they were gonna be on the world's team and they all decided to work together. And uh they had themselves a great race. I can see that happening again this year, where there's a little bit of crumro camaraderie coming over from that team, and these guys are gonna find themselves in similar positions. You know, you get in a race like this, it's gonna be very hard to see because everybody's evolved in their own game, right? Like one guy became an Olympian, one guy just did amazing at Sagama, and then the other guy just became the 2026 mountain running champion. Like, what a team, dude. So I I have a uh a strong feeling that the American men are gonna be doing very well in this race. And um I've been talking about this for a while. I think this is one of the beginning of the American men stepping forward. Um, we have this contingent of Taylor Stack, Mason Cope, Cam Smith, Dan Kurtz, Christian Allen, um, just a you know, a good five to ten American men that are just supremely talented and can go internationally and compete at the highest level. And I think this is the race where they kind of stake that step forward. Dude, don't forget, you've got Andy Wacker in the mix here, too. Andy is a dog. You know, Andy, I believe he's 2023 winner at uh Broken Arrow in the 23k. Also, a name that we haven't mentioned at all is Morgan Elliott. He's not gonna be on the race. Sorry. Oh that's a that's a that's breaking news. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00I was just like, why are we not talking about him?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I left him up. No, Morgan is not gonna be out there. He will be racing, I believe, at Whiteface in uh New York. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh he would have been a name to keep a keep an eye on. That guy is anyone, I mean, obviously a lot of uh Skyrunner World Series events, um, but if you are just clicking around on the FKT website, you like there's a there is a more Morgan Elliott FKT in every single state, I feel like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Morgan's done a lot, dude. What a what a what a career so far. Um I think I mean we we can talk a little bit about strategy for this
Men’s Strategy Tactics And Teamwork
SPEAKER_01race. I mean, last year, if we watched, you know, the race in 2025, uh, the way it played out, El Housine obviously plays it very cool. He lets Patrick Philemon kind of that front pack go. Christian took it out extremely hot last year, leading both of those, all those gentlemen until he faded and was overtaken. Still managed to, I think Christian was third or fourth last year, if I remember correctly. He was in the mix, he was right there. Um so I could see something similar like that happening. I Christian has the ability to do extremely well at this race, but sometimes I like racing strategy-wise, going super hot off the line makes me wonder of like, okay, like can you stick the landing, right? He could stick the landing in a vertical race, but can you do that in a in a race like this where it's there's a little bit more variability? Whereas I feel like Mason and Taylor race a little smarter. Um that's hard to say. I mean, we saw it in Sunnepe, the way Christian races. So it very aggressive. Um, whereas El Housine is a tactician. I think he's gonna absolutely hammer though. I think he's gonna want to make a statement here, El Housine.
SPEAKER_00So I don't think we've ever seen someone, except for maybe Killian, who is capable of just milking exactly what they need out of their fitness to be able to game on race day. They uh obviously he's getting fitter and fitter as he's training, but he just he has the mentality of someone who knows how to sit and wait and be patient. Um, but he also is fit enough to sit with the fastest person in the field and then drop them in the last 5k.
SPEAKER_01Absolute tactician. I mean, Taylor had said that when I had him on the podcast, the way you talked about him. You know, I think Taylor's starting to put it together though. Like I think he's not far away from winning one of these Golden Trail series races. Let's go to
Men’s Top Five Picks And Why
SPEAKER_01picks. Let's go to picks. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I'll go first on this one. Uh I sort of had this in mind because uh you had mentioned it, but I think uh the bottom half of my top five are going to be a contingency. I think there is going to be a contingency of Americans that are working together. So I'm going Mason Copi five, Taylor Stack four, Patrick Kippingo uh three, number two, Philemon, number one, Elozine.
SPEAKER_01That's a very that's that's probably what the top five will wind up being. I'd say it's somewhere in that range. Uh with Cam Smith in the mix, too.
SPEAKER_00You know? Yeah. Cam Smith is so incredibly talented, and he shows time and time again that like you don't need to have a strict running background to be a really good runner, and he just continues to get better and better every year. It's this is just uh this is a world uh uh sorry, a uh Golden Trail World Series mini event right here, just with the purse.
SPEAKER_01So I think it's dude, there's more money in this race than than Golden Trail. It's like a it's like bigger. Yeah, it is. Um yeah, I you so all right. So I'm gonna I'm gonna put something out there in the world because you you're seeing this, you're saying the same thing. I don't know where Christian stacks up in this race. Like Christian could win this race, but he also could fall around the top five. I don't he has the ability to do both. I don't know, you know.
SPEAKER_00I have him at I have him at six in this race. Okay, I can see that. I I think that this race suits him more than Sunope, but I think both Taylor and Mason are riding um the confidence that they've had from uh earlier successes in this year.
SPEAKER_01All right, so I'm gonna go fifth Patrick, fourth Philemon, third Mason Copey, second Taylor stack, first Al Housin. I think the American men take one forward. I think Mason and Taylor work together. Yeah, I do. I think Mason and Taylor work together, dude. And I think they roll up. Uh I think, man, Taylor and Mason have gotten so much better on their descending. And if Patrick and Philemon have have weak points, it is on the descending. And I think they're also really good climbers. Taylor seems to perform really well in some of those grittier courses. So if there's an opportunity to make a move, you're gonna find it in Shirley Canyon, I think. Um that's assuming you're close to them at the top on that descent. I don't know. It's hard to say, but I think I think El Husine's just gonna be in a class of his own. I don't think he's gonna be beaten. But I do think Taylor and Mason can work together for second and third. I think that Patrick and Philemon might be vulnerable for it. We'll see. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, I think that's also like a strong American bias, so what do I know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, and I I I think it could the the cards could fall that way. Uh I think one thing that Taylor and uh Mason have is really runnable downhill. I mean, they're both very rounded out athletes, but on specifically downhill, they they do excel, especially if there is runnable terrain on it. So I think that is something to be in uh keep in mind.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if they're gonna work together. I feel like I'm gonna start a text message thread after this to get them to both work together because I feel like you boys, come on. If you if you build it, they will come. I'm telling you, dude. I don't be surprised to see that happen, though. I think that that's a smart strategy for this type of race. Um, because if you do work in that way, I think that it makes Patrick because Phil and Patrick work together, dude. Come on, you know, yeah. That's my take. Uh and then I think El Housine's just gonna play play it cool, wait for the somebody to blow up and then and then absolutely smoke the dino, or just go super aggressive from the start, which is not normally his game. Um, we still do that if you wanted. Yeah. Listen, man, I'm just primed for upsets right now. I mean, we've watched the Knicks go and win the NBA finals, and then Justin Gagey knocks out Iliad Taporia on the White House lawn. I've seen some crazy shit happen in sports over the last two two weeks. So this is I I want to see some Americans, some Americans do well here.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, look, I I I'd be I'd be so happy to see us do that. Uh the the US uh contingency on the men's side and the women's side show up and say, like, hey, this is where uh this is where our team's going into defeat the color and uh really stamp uh put a stamp on uh the fact that we're on the up and up, but it's just tough to bet against Elzin just being the athlete he is and the tactician he is.
SPEAKER_01He's I think he's the right now like one of the best, if not the best in the world. Probably is. I mean, I think it would be hard. I don't even prove otherwise probably. Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't think it's hard to prove otherwise.
Wrap Up Thanks And Where To Find Steve
SPEAKER_01Steve, well, we just went through three of these, and I am really tired of losing my voice. Thank you so much. Uh for uh usually we do these in person. It's good to do one online as well. We got a good video set up. Uh, I'm gonna get to editing and I just want to say thank you so much for coming on, dude. Appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Hey, thank you so much. I I always love getting to talk about this, and hopefully we can just keep doing this and keep having good times. And uh, you know, hopefully we can come in with a a bit more energy on the next one. We've been we did a great job, but I knew I think we both knew we had a marathon coming in for this. Totally agree.
SPEAKER_01Steve, before we get going one more time, tell everybody where they can find you and how they can find you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one more time. Uh so again, if anyone out there is looking for the commercial insurance needs, especially for uh people in the outdoor industry, retail, manufacturing, recreation spaces, you can reach out to me at steve dot tailor at glenwoodins.com, or you can find me on the glenwood insurance dot com uh website. Steve, thank you so much. Appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, man.
