#185 - Timmy Parr

He’s 44, he’s racing almost every weekend, and he’s still winning. Timmy Parr is one of the true American mountain running legends, and he’s on a mission that sounds impossible until you hear how close he is: Project 5050, a plan to win a race in all 50 states. He’s already checked off 46, and he tells us exactly which four states remain and how he’s managing the travel, the training load, and the pressure that comes with chasing a public goal.

We start with Whiteface Sky Races and get into the unglamorous truth about steep ski-run descents, DOMS, and why most runners never train at full speed on a 30% downhill. From there we zoom out into longevity in trail running and skyrunning: what changes in your 40s, how recovery slows down, and why “old man strength” can beat raw fitness through smarter pacing and better decisions. Timmy also shares how racing at altitude versus sea level affects confidence, performance, and even sleep.

Then we go deep on history. Timmy walks us through his 2009 Leadville 100 win, including huge training weeks, brutal heat, the darkest mental patch of the day, and the moment the race turned. We also talk sponsorship politics, corporatization in trail racing, and why community-driven events still feel like the soul of the sport.

If you love trail running, ultramarathon stories, mountain race strategy, and real talk about staying competitive as you age, this one delivers. Subscribe, share it with a running friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Follow Timmy on IG - @timparr1

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Subscribe Ask

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Now this is the Steep Stuff Podcast. What's up, guys? Hey, before we get started, if you haven't already, whatever platform you're listening to this on, please hit that subscribe or follow button, whether that's Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Those subscriptions go a super long way in being able to keep the podcast going and allowing me to continue to tell the stories of these amazing athletes and also do some of the race coverage and all the good stuff that we've been doing over the last few years. And also, if you haven't already, please give us a rating and a review if you haven't. Yeah, let us know what you guys think about the podcast and hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in.

Whiteface Sky Races Breakdown

SPEAKER_01 0:48

All right, Timmy Parr, welcome to the Steep Self Podcast. How's it going, man? Hi James, great being here. Dude, it's an honor and a privilege. I I it's uh I always have such a good time having the legends on the show, and you are you're definitely one of them. Uh when when I saw your I I like randomly just happened to be like on Instagram and I saw you running, I think it was the descent on Shakora, and realized that you had an Instagram. Uh, and I was like, oh, I gotta reach out to him, get him on the show. And that's how this came to fruition. So I'm so happy uh that that all kind of kind of came into play.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

That that race at Shakora, that uh one video, it just it went viral on Instagram. I was I was kind of surprised. So that was that was kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yeah. I mean, man, you're you know, legendary status there, too. Like I've known about you for so long. Like very excited to have you on the show and chat. I'd say first thing to get into, you just raced this past weekend at the White Face Sky Races. You ran the mountain race and the vertical kilometer. Uh how are you feeling post-race? And how was the race for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Uh, the race itself, the uh mountain race in the morning was uh it went great. It was pretty smooth. I went out with uh Morgan. He won the uh the the two-loop lap. So I went out with him, and he and I we kind of just set the pace, felt pretty good. I uh I could still climb decently. I feel like I'm a little slower than I was 10 years ago, uh, but uh still climb pretty decently. So got up and we dropped third on the first climb. Uh, but that's at the point where I decide to just uh keep sprinting, keep surging, can't let up. So did the second climb. I knew my lead was secure and uh hammered the downhill. The downhill there was was steep, it was going straight down the uh the I guess the blue runs. There might have been some diamonds in there, but straight down the the uh ski runs. Uh so that made me extra sore today. Uh so finished up the race, uh, did the VK, which that was that was nice and smooth. It's all uphill, so it doesn't really beat up your muscles. But then uh flew back. I had been in California, so I actually flew out of uh Vegas. So I flew back to Vegas and spent two days driving back to Colorado. I normally don't do that, but I was on vacation climbing some mountains in California. So so uh dealing with some DOMs right now, really sore.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Coast to coast, man. I feel your pain. I was out in California two weeks ago for Broken Arrow and then subsequently flew uh instead of doing Whiteface, I wound up doing Cirque Series Killington um just because it was just kind of fit into the schedule a little bit better. And so I went out there and dude, I was really sore too. I I was I don't really get sore very often, and I was very surprised by I guess those 30% ski run like descents just like absolutely crush your legs. I we don't really get like I know in Colorado we have steep stuff, but like not to that level, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I don't know. Well, also it's it has a lot to do with with just the pounding on the downhill. I I do a lot of of hills in my training, and so I sure I get a lot of pounding the downhill, but I'm not going six flat or even a little faster, six flat pace on 30 degree downhills, hammering as hard as I can. I just uh don't do that. I don't think too many runners do. Yeah, uh mostly because it beats up your body so much. Uh so um that it's just it's part of the recovery process now.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah. Yeah. It's fun though. It's a badge of honor. It's always good to have a little it means you worked hard. So yeah. Well, congratulations on uh on your win. Uh this kind of rolls into the next aspect of the

Project 5050 And The Four States Left

SPEAKER_01 4:39

conversation. I had read in a couple different places that you have this goal of trying to win a race in every state. Is that is that the stated goal and what you're kind of chasing right now?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah. Uh I uh officially started to go for this about two and a half years ago. Uh I went ahead and in my 20s and even early 30s, I thought, oh yeah, I could I could win a race in every state, sure. Uh and that rattled around in my brain for a while. And then finally, two years ago, I said, well, stop saying it and go do it. Uh just because you say you can can. How about you actually try? So uh two years ago I started Project 5050, which is win, well, run 50 races in 50 states and win uh in 50 states. And the goal is also in 50 months or less. Uh, but as of now, I'm hoping to do it in uh about 24 to 27 months, kind of depending upon how it goes. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

That's crazy, man. What uh can you rattle off like the states you've won in already? And like the what what you're still like what's what's next?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I think you're I think that's I knew this would come up, so I have my my map as well right here. And uh so I I'm at 46 states. Uh I'm so I've been filling in my map as I go, and so I'm missing uh Alaska, Minnesota, uh Maine, and Iowa. I was gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Did you uh do you follow I know you're racing this weekend, but did you follow Mount Marathon at all? I know you had raced that in the past.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

I I did. I saw um I saw what's his name, won it for the sixth time in a row, or not maybe not a row, but sixth time. So which is uh impressive. That's a whole different type of race. Uh I I always say that certain areas have uh runners which uh can just excel at certain races. Mount Marathon is one of those where uh I went up there and and uh runners I've run against in the lower 48 uh dominate. Uh well, for instance, there was there's a girl I went to uh college with, and I could beat her in 20 out of 20 races, probably. I raced against her in Mount Marathon, and she beat me by five minutes, probably. Oh wow. Uh mostly because I got into it, and it's that race is it's not not for me. Uh the downhills were uh too dangerous, I'd say. And they're there for for me. And um, I know people break their legs every year. Uh it's it's kind of like that cheese, uh, chase the cheese down the hill. So uh yeah, I I I'm impressed by it. Um I went and did it. It was fun. Once was enough for me for that race for Mount Marathon.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Oh, very cool. All right, let's let's take this back then.

From Nevada To Western Colorado Running

SPEAKER_01 7:42

I feel like because there's a lot of new school athletes that you know are coming up in the sport that might have not met you yet or have not heard of you or heard some of the records that you've done and and the things that you've accomplished in the sport. Um maybe let's track it from the beginning and give me some of your backstory. Like, where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? Um, how did running kind of come into your life? And then we can kind of go from there.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Sure. Uh grew up in northern Nevada, actually, kind of near Carson City. Uh I'd always run, sometimes bike, but usually run uh to get wherever I wanted to go. So I had a friend uh that lived a mile away or so, and I'd always run over to his house. Uh I was just always running to get places. People would call me Forrest Gump sometimes. And uh but then uh eventually Ronnie would actually pay to take me places, so I can't complain there. Um my family moved out to Colorado, uh, and then I went to in uh high school, and after that I went to um Western Colorado University in Gunnison. Uh fell in love with the area and uh the trails, the mountains. Uh I was always during summertime, always trying to go and explore uh trails, go climb up mountains, uh, much to the chagrin of uh my teammates, my coach, because they wanted me more on roads, but I would still excel at uh cross-country and track, so they couldn't complain too much. Uh yeah, ran at in college. That went okay, nothing outstanding. And then uh thought I'd go ahead and try for the uh U.S. trials in the marathon. And once again, that just went so so. Ran uh like a 225 marathon. And it was my debut marathon, and I've actually never beat that since. I felt like I've been in 218, 219 shape, but just never never uh had it come together again for the marathon. Um meanwhile, I was I was running different events. Um when I was 18, just prior to um college, my senior year of high school, I did the Pikes Peak double, the uh ascent in the marathon. Um I think I set the record for 18 and under for the doubles that year. Um surprisingly that still stands, I think. Um pretty sure it does.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

I I did a little digging into the results, and from what I could see, I I don't think they're some of their like records are kind of funky, but yeah, I think I'm pretty sure you still have it.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Okay. And so um once college was over and and uh the marathon uh wasn't quite panning out. I uh definitely kept getting drawn back to trails. That was just always a draw. And uh especially even when I was training for the marathon, the trails were calling and go up to Crest Butte and still run on the trails up there. So I uh um officially just went back to trails, uh, briefly jumped into some ultras for a few years. I started with uh Leadville 100. I I'd seen that when I was 18 on a camping trip and always wanted to go and try it. Um I was training with Duncan Callahan, who had won in 2008, and then uh so I entered it in 2009. Uh I won it that year, and then 2010, Duncan won it that year. So we we were just um three years, three years in a row for the two of us, which was kind of neat. Uh and then I yeah, I I tried hundreds for a couple years. Uh they were okay, but I was just I was excelling and doing better with uh 25k, 30k's, and and and just enjoying that a little more. So I went uh went went back to that and have kind of stuck with it since.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Which I love. It's usually the opposite. We get a lot of people that start in the short trail and then evolve up into the ultras and kind of finish their career off in the in the hundred mile. And some guys even do like the 200 miles now as their song swan uh swan song and kind of call it a day. But I I love how you kind of did the opposite, and and through the aging process, like you're still crushing it and winning races and like doing really well, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I I'm I'm thankful, I'm blessed, uh really just thankful that I'm able to continue to do these races. Uh I'm 44 and and definitely feel uh a little um a little slower, not quite as uh as quick. Uh the the um recovery process takes a little longer. At the same time, I'm also racing almost weekly as well. So I've had to uh kind of um adapt my training.

Aging, Recovery, And Racing Weekly

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Uh something I started as a for instance, I started a year ago, year and a half ago, is is uh is um doing the elliptical and maybe like an elliptical treadmill mix once a week just to take away some pounding from my legs. Uh just um I was talking with a friend, he does a lot more biking. And um, so I'll do a little biking and then and then uh a day of elliptical every week. Well, during the school years every week.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I'd love to see it though. I mean, I this is uh you know, we're in an interesting time in the sport now, especially in Sword Trail, where you see guys like yourself, uh Joseph Gray, Max King. I mean, I think Max has got to be somewhere around your age, maybe even a year or two older than you, somewhere in there, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

He's he's I I feel like Max is a year younger, but I'm not yeah, I don't know right now. Yeah, he's he's about my age. Yeah, and Joe is pretty close too.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Joe's gotta be 41, 42 now. So yeah, cool to see some of the fast guys like in their 40s still crushing it, man.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah, I've I was thinking about that recently. There's there's a handful of us, you just mentioned uh a few of us, and and uh as long as we keep putting in some time and training, I I feel like we can continually do well for another five to ten years. Uh I'm I'm hoping to be able to uh keep it up for a little while longer.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah. I mean, I feel like, and this is an interesting stuff, I think about this all the time because I'm uh approaching my mid-30s and and just getting into my mid-30s. And you know, it's like okay, at one point in time, like, yeah, the VO2 might fall off a little bit, but that doesn't really matter as much for our sport. Like, I feel like there's a good aerobic component. And if you're if you if you drop from a 70 VO2 to a 65 or 69 or 68, does that really matter like when it comes to you know, maybe a few placements? But nothing insane, at least I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Well, one thing that you might discount or or not think about right now is also the the old man strength, which comes into play. Um, I right now you're in your 30s, and I feel like you're going to be peaking with your mid to late 30s. Um I I remember I ran uh flag staff sky peaks uh two years in a row, a decade ago, like 2015, 16, or 16, 17. And the first year I was more fit, easily more fit. Uh second year I was not as fit, but the second year I also ran five to eight minutes faster, even though I wasn't as fit. And it came down to knowing the course and running smarter, which is those combined is old man strength. Uh so I I didn't go out as hard because I wasn't as fit. Uh so I ran more consistent because I wasn't as fit and just ran smarter and ended up faster uh with that. So there's there's that factor to take into play. Uh with VO2, I I've actually got my VO2 tested in college. I got it tested a couple years ago. Um, of course the watch says what it is. Um but whenever I've got it tested, it's actually been decently close to what my watch says. So I I feel like that's um similar. The interesting thing about that is my VO2 also uh because I'm going down to sea level to go run these races weekly, it will um bounce up five to eight points, and then I come back to altitude and it'll bounce back down to to uh uh yeah, I'll bounce back down then.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

How do you like uh racing at sea level versus racing at altitude? Like I I know obviously it's a it's a bit of a superpower. I I quite enjoy it. But I also enjoy the mountain west races too, because they're just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

There, you know, I I love both. I love mountains because I think, ha, no one is used to this altitude. I'm gonna crush you in it. Uh and so I go in with that confidence. But then I go to sea level. I go, ah, I've got I've got my red blood cells. Bring on the steepness, bring in the the hills. I'm gonna crush you because I got the red blood cells. So uh it it does give a confidence boost either way. Uh sea level feels uh so much um almost I I don't want to say easier, but I feel a little more fit even when I go to sea level. Yeah. Uh so it's just a huge confidence booster uh whenever I go down.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I think I sleep better, dude. I I like if I go out a few, especially a few days early, like for Vermont. I think I went out like fluid on a Wednesday, race was on Saturday, and those days leading up. Oh my god, I sleep so much better there than compared. I live in Colorado Springs, so 65, 6,600 feet. Yeah, I sleep so much better there than I do at altitude.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I don't know about that. I I'll have to experiment sometime. Um actually I I can later this year, but uh on my trips, I'm always flying out normally the day before, normally. So I I don't have not really experienced uh flying out, you know, two, three days prior, usually.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's gonna be tough, man, flying in the day before because gotta shake out the legs, especially if it's across the country, gotta, you know, I don't know, you just feel gross from a flight. At least I do. Like I this this time around, I was like experimenting with how do I not get dehydrated? How do I stay on top of my like hydration and not feel like garbage when I when I land? So I was hammering water and electrolytes and coconut water and all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

You know, your body is um pretty receptive. Uh and so I I go in with a lot of confidence that my body is going to respond uh wh whenever I'm at these races. And uh so travel flying, I I I kind of see it as going to the salon and you know, you sit down in a nice chair and you get a massage as you're flying across the the country and get you get to sleep, you get to relax, you have no worries usually, um unless you're gonna be super late for the race, then then it's then there's stress. But uh normally I just I I try not to stress too much about it, just fly to my destination, try to get some sleep and and have my body respond. And I know with with uh a lot of history of running, my body is able to respond pretty quickly. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Very cool. All right, let's let's

Leadville 100 Win And Dark Moments

SPEAKER_01 19:55

take it back in time. I want to go back. You were talking about Leadville, and this was something interesting to me because one of the things I want to hit is different aspects and parts of your career, uh, different eras and times, if you will, because the eras, so things have changed so much now. Uh talk about this time, you know, in 2009, winning Leadville. What was the race like? What was that time of your life like? And kind of go more into that story and that aspect.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Sure. I was I was pretty fit. I was doing well over 100 mile weeks. Uh I'd been doing 30-mile training runs every weekend, um, leading up to Leadville the previous year, um, two years after even, uh, just 30 miles every weekend. If if I wanted an easy weekend, it was it would be a marathon. So just every single weekend. Um so super fit. I remember uh during the summer leading up to it, uh Tony Kropitschka had won uh two years prior, and he was definitely the favorite going in. And uh somehow he got word that I was entered and fit, probably from Duncan telling him or something. But I I went and did two uh 30-mile runs on a day. It was a wake up and do a four-hour, 30-mile run, go eat, sleep, wake up and repeat. Uh and uh it was it was uh one of the harder training days I've ever had, 60 60 miles. And uh it went fantastic. The main goal was to negative split. I think I did by 10 or 15 minutes somewhere in there. So I was I was ready, I was fit. Um Tony knew that. Um so race started pretty chill. We went out and uh Tony and I, a couple others, but we were we were leading the pack and the pace. We yo yoed a bit um starting. At mile 25, uh not not through effort, not through like trying too hard, but through like, oh, I gotta stop to uh grab some calories at this aid station or use the the jump jump in the woods. Uh so um yeah we yo-yo'd a little bit all the way to mile uh 40, Twin Lakes. And um day was heating up, it was getting hot, but we hit 40 pretty close. I think he had jumped ahead of me, was a minute in front, something like that, or maybe I was still ahead. I don't remember. Um I do remember we started going up the pass together, twin, um hope, hope pass together, and somewhere in there, uh I feel like I was still leading at that point. So he passed me going up and crested uh Hope Hope Pass a couple minutes in front of me. Uh we hammered down, made it to Winfield halfway, and he was he was coming back, so he had five minutes on me, probably. And and I think, well, I know he set the record to uh Winfield when we did it, which is still one of the top three fastest times. I know that uh a couple cars time and uh and uh a couple other times have have tied Tony's time. Uh so I get there and um I'm with my crew and they tell me, okay, don't don't worry about it, just stay relaxed. You're you're doing fantastic. And all I'm thinking is, what? I'm 10 minutes behind him, I'm doing bad. No, I I just ran the second fastest time to Winfield. So they they kind of force me to calm down and uh and leave, and then then I have my uh my mule, which is good. So um get get back up over uh Winfield, get down, things are going smooth. I hit uh Twin Lakes for the second time, and I'm starting to, I'm at mile 60, I'm starting to feel the race, starting to start to hurt, absolutely. And it's hot. It's really hot. So I leave Winfield and I somewhere past Winfield, probably mile 65, I I encountered the worst, worst both uh physical and mental part of the whole race. Um sure I'm I'm hurting, which is all physical, but mentally I was I wasn't really ready for where I I went to right there then. It was um it was bad. I I slowed down, I was dehydrated. Um I ended up starting walking at at one point, and my pacer had a shirt, probably my shirt or his shirt, and was holding it over his head to shield me from the sun. Uh because I was just, yeah, I was out of it. And and and at that point I thought, can I even finish this race? Do I need to do I need to uh bail? And uh it just goes to show uh mentally can't listen to those those uh negative aspects because we're we're all gonna have those when we're racing. Uh and and you can't listen to those. So I I just thought, yeah, I I should quit. I I can't go on. But no, I I threw that out, ignored it. Um my pacers, they just kept encouraging me. I got going again, started jogging and then running. I'm I was still in second, surprisingly. Uh Duncan came up, he passed me, and so he moved into second, I was in third. We made it to uh outward bound, and um actually it was fish hatchery. They moved the uh the uh aid station a mile. So made it there to fish hatchery, I was in third, picked up a new uh pacer, and the new pacer instantly said, Oh yeah, you're doing great. And I'm thinking, what are you talking about? Yeah, you're doing great. Uh Tony's right up around the corner. I uh of course he's saying that to make me run faster. At least that's what I think. And he goes, Oh yeah, right around the corner, around the corner, and Tony's not there. And he goes, Oh, just the next corner. And uh so I I uh I go, okay. And so I round the next corner, and yeah, Tony is there. Uh he the heat's got to him too, because it was was extremely hot. It was, I think it was 80s, low 80s, which is hot for uh 10,000 feet in Leadville. So um, yeah, I passed I passed uh Krupitshka, moved into second, and uh keep in mind all summer I trained with Duncan. He had won the year before, he's now in first, and uh he knew I was fit going into this. And during the summer, he Duncan had told me repeatedly, he had said uh something like, Timmy, no matter what, if I he said, uh I will he said, I will exploit any opportunity to beat you in this race.

Foot Care Sponsor Spot With Cedus

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Guys, how's your feet? Like seriously, uh how's uh how are your feet doing? Um I'm sure if you're listening to this, you're a runner or an athlete of some kind uh in one way or another. And as most athletes do, everybody struggles with injury one way or another, and foot care is like one of the most important things when it comes to injury mitigation or just dealing with injuries in general. Um, everything from plantar fasciitis, peroneal issues, uh a lot of people deal with blisters in the sport. Uh kind of the list goes on. It's a great opportunity for me to talk about our partner, Cetus US. Um, I've been partnering with them for a couple of years now, and man, the products have just gone such a long way for me as an athlete personally. Um couple months back, I'd been dealing with some proneal issues and some planter issues on my left foot, and uh got hooked up with some of the Cetus insoles. Um, it was the trail three feet, and man, it went such a long way in helping me rehab that foot and just helped a ton. Um, on top of that, big fan of the socks and big believer in the socks as well. I use them all the time because they're amazing. Uh, but in all seriousness, I'm sure you've seen like Jim Walmsley, Hidden Hawks, and then you know, some of the best women in the sport, like Robin Lesh, um, or even on the ski side, uh Jesse Diggins rocking uh the Cedus feet. And um, for me personally, it's the run-in atomic comfort. I absolutely love those socks. Um, it's got reinforced protection, it's got a great grip strip to keep the sock from kind of moving within uh the shoe. It's breathable and it's got great protection, especially for technical trails for your heels and your toes. And uh above all else, it's breathable, so it's not gonna stink too bad. Uh, my wife definitely gives uh thumbs up when it comes to that. So I don't have two stinky feet or stinky socks. So if you haven't already, go online, check out CDS.us, and if you find something you like, use code SteepStuff. It's good for one use only. It's gonna get you 20% off your car and uh giving you guys the hookup. So hope you enjoy it. Check it out, CDS.us insoles and socks.

Closing The Deal At Leadville

SPEAKER_01 29:24

They've got the best in the game.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So uh so he's so Duncan's in front of me. We make it up uh power line, and I start coming down power line, and Duncan's there, and now the heat's gotten to him, and he's he's hurting and walking, and I run up to him, and I'm I'm starting to feel better and better and better. And uh I get to him and I give him a quick pat on his back and say, Duncan, I'm gonna exploit any opportunity today. So I I run past him, and uh at that point I know I just gotta go. It's 13, 14 miles to the finish. So I it was I guess it was more like 15, but I make it down to Mayqueen, and then I uh I just I just hammer it to the finish. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

How did that feel? Especially, you know, I I mean the race back then was a big deal. I mean, now it's obviously still you know a big deal. I feel like the fields though might have been a little bit different and maybe deeper back then as far as some of the front guys in the race. I don't know. I we always see these stories about like you know, old school Leadville from like that two you know early 2000s era to like 2015, and it just seemed like a different race then than it is now.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

I I I think it's pretty similar, comparable um with with competition and with with uh with depth. Uh I I feel like there's I feel like the competition is a little deeper currently, just a tad, but still if you have eight solid runners in 2010 that can go and any one of the eight can can uh mix up the podium. Now it's let's just say it's 12, and uh that will go and mix up the podium. And of course, you're gonna be talking about some lead r runners. Uh there was Duncan, there was uh Krupitschka, myself, um uh Andy Jones.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Wilkins or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Wilkins, yeah, he was he was running it that year. Um the guy that took second, he was a dark horse as well. Duncan was third, ended up third. He had a rough last section. But the guy that took second was uh was a Eastern uh guy that was um yeah, he was uh he was another dark horse. I was kind of a dark horse. Kind of. So yeah, there's always that competition. Uh I I feel like well, when I ran it, Tony was going for the record, and I was going to I was trying to stay with Tony and and and uh and win. Duncan was too, um, which is kind of what happens every year with someone going for the record and and trying to do their best on that course.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

How did it feel to be because that's right right around the beginning of the height of Tony's powers? How did it feel to beat him kind of in that era um of him becoming in in the process of becoming who he is today?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I you know, I was thinking a lot about um something similar to that recently, and that's just um confidence uh versus um some cockiness. And it is uh as any good runner knows, you need to be confident. Uh and and I feel like confidence, sure, confidence comes with running well, it also comes with training well. Uh but going into a race and having that confidence, you will run better. And I went into Leadville extremely confident that I could win. Uh I went into Leadville confident that I would position myself throughout the race to win. Uh so I was I was confident. I was I was ready and and uh if anything, I expected to do well. So uh yeah, it was an honor to to uh do well. It's an honor to always race against good competitors and beat them. Uh that that's that's part of competition. Uh so so yeah, it was it was just a great, great day, great honor overall.

The Wins That Matter Most

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Of all the things you've done, I mean you've also won the Pikes Peak Ascent. You've won a lot of races, dude. Uh what what is what's the sweetest? Like, did it mean more to you to win something like Leadville or you know, to get your name in history at Pikes Peak or something like that? Like of all the things that you've done, what kind of ranks up there is the highest or the sweetest?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Uh so Leadville was definitely one of the higher uh wins of my career. Uh I'm a gene pass, um uh Pikes Peak, um the um Run Rabbit uh 50. Uh I've I've had so many um uh often it comes down to competition also, who I'm competing aga competing against. And sometimes sometimes races there there's a race I ran against uh uh Dave uh Dave Mackey in 2009. It was it was uh red hot in in uh Red Hot 50K in Moab. And that that race, I I took second to Dave. Uh I learned more in that race. It really ranks up there for me uh because I learned more in that race than any other race. Uh I was I was fitter than Dave. He was smarter. He had he had old man strength. He was smarter, he ran better, he ran just uh a more strategic race. Uh I think I went out in the lead, he caught me, we yo-yo'd, we ran together then. And finally, with a half mile to go, he does a surge on a technical spot, which was brilliant. Um, I wasn't ready for the surge. He got 30 yards on me and then just maintained it. And uh and and so it's just I learned a bunch there. Um there was a race in Crest Debute, low-key, no one runs it. Uh Kieran Nay and I ran that one. And um, this was sometime during COVID, 2020. So we we ran it. It was uh carte de cart is the name of it. No one else, well, no other competition in the race. Um we ran Kieran and I, we yo-yoed, he was leading, I was leading. Um eventually I took the lead and won by a couple minutes. That one ranks pretty high simply because of the competition, once again, with uh Kieran there and and uh and and going back and forth. Uh sometimes sometimes doing a race, you might not even realize like how um how impactful it is to you till afterwards. Uh Chakor is a good example of that from a couple weeks ago. I I knew it would be tough going in, but but uh during that race, it was it was um it was at a whole different level than I expected. And um as one part that stands out so much just with um um runners and competition that that uh means a lot to me, I know. Um during the race, um I was I was running along with uh the guy that was second, that that took second in the race. And so he and I we were running together and we cross a river and my foot, my ankle got jammed in between some rocks in the river. So I was I was I was stuck. And so he stopped. We both stopped. Well, I couldn't, I was forced to stop, but uh he stopped and and uh went ahead, helped me uh get out of that that bind, and then we started racing again. And um, so that that's uh once again it comes down to the competition and and uh but yeah as far as individual races, thinking about them, Leadville, Leadville's up there for sure. Um and then yeah, I'll throw in Pikes Peak, I'm a Jean Pass, Leadville Marathon. Uh there's there's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

I gotta

Ouray, Hardrock Smoke, And Community Races

SPEAKER_01 38:00

ask you this. So I I mean I haven't raced it yet. It's been on my list of things to do, but I'm always busy in September. I want to go out and do the Uray Mountain Trail Race, which I know you do every year. I think you still hold the course record on it, probably. Um talk about that race and why that's so special to you. Obviously, being in Gunnison, it's not not a far trip. It's it's pretty close. Um, but I've run on the course before, and every time I run on the course, I'm like, dude, this should this could be a sky race. This is a very legit course. It's super fun. Uh it's just up and down, up and down and relentless. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Sure. I love that course. I've run it, I think seven times. It's right around there. Uh it's a 12 and a half miles or so. It feels like a half marathon, 2500 feet gain. There's two major climbs. First mile is flat, followed by a thousand-foot climb in the next mile, and so uh which translates into a 530 mile followed by a 12-minute mile. So you have to have speed and then you have to have climbing ability. Uh but yeah, I I love that course. It's single track, it's technical for just about all of it. Uh have uh you have to be able to fly on some uh really technical single track. There's cliffs that you don't want to fall off or slide off. Uh I I know um every year also conditions um often affect times a lot there, just with um how dry it might be. Uh if it's rained beforehand, that's always good because that just settles the the trail. Um sometimes there's trees to jump over, sometimes they've cut them down or out. So uh there's there's that to take into account. Uh thinking about the gold mountain fire there this year, that that uh that won't affect this this uh race, but at the same time, uh as in it will not affect the trail, is what I mean. Yeah. Uh at the same time, of course, uh I I don't know what's going to be happening with uh trail races in URA at the moment, just with the fire going on so close.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

But yeah, that's that that's a really special race. Um it's it has such a uh uh hometown feel. Everyone there wants the runners to be there. It's not at all there, there's no corporate feel to it. It's all just personalized.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah. No, I listen, like I said, I every time in September I'm always busy and I'm like, damn, I gotta get this on my schedule to go do it. Uh so hopefully next year or this year I might be able to fit it in. But yeah, what a cool area. I've run, like I said, run on the course before and I was just like blown away by it. I was like, this is so beautiful. Um Yeah, I'm surprised they I are you surprised they're having hard rock this week, or are you kind of not not surprised by that? I mean, it doesn't affect the course, but still, it's like so.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

I was looking at that, and the majority of the smoke is blowing uh blowing east, and hard rock for the most part won't be in the smoke. So I'm not surprised. Hard rock is is uh there's so much planning that goes into it. It's there there's a lot more just to cancel it, and that's also uh heartache for 140, 100 is it 140 or 150? One of the 140 runners. Uh and so no, I'm not surprised. I I I'm wanting them to run it. Uh so hopefully hopefully the winds um keep the smoke away, and hopefully there's um some rain on forecast that that uh gets the fires um and the smoke out.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Are you guys still getting is it smoky up by you? I think I saw Kieran's uh Instagram story the other day, and there was like ash falling in Ghana Seth. I was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

So so uh yeah, I just got back into town today, and and um yeah, it's um it's smoky for sure. Um we do have a little rain that came in today, so that that's gonna help. Uh tomorrow when I get out, I'd uh I might get up in Crestbeat I'll see see if there's less smoke up there.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

How do you like uh because I mean obviously you've been in the area a lot longer than some of a lot of these other guys now, like the young guns kind of coming up, like Taylor Stack, Kieran Nay, Brian Whitfield. There's quite a few uh really fast young men and women in Gunnison. Do you get out to run with any of these folks? I I know you kind of I'm sure you keep tabs on them.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Uh sometimes a little. Um I ran with Kieran a month ago, but and um I I try and run with some of them, but I'm I'm also my schedule is kind of chaotic. Normally my uh weekly schedule during the school year is is uh leave Friday, race Saturday, travel back Saturday or Sunday, uh, and then I have Monday through Thursday in town. And so it's it's been really chaotic. Um but yeah, I try and get out with a couple of them. I was trying to get with uh um Taylor Stack and um John Mahoney. He's he's another runner up in Crest debute a couple weeks ago, and that didn't pan out. But so yeah, I I try.

Sponsorship Politics And Sport Professionalization

SPEAKER_01 43:24

What do you think of all these like uh I I guess more this is more of a broad and generalized question of like you've seen the sport when it was show up, let's drink a case of beer with friends, kind of hang out, just a very low-key kind of thing, and now it's uber professionalized, you've got you know people really making salaries off of it. You've kind of seen you know both sides of the sport. What do you think of it now?

SPEAKER_00 43:47

I I'm a little um uh shocked, if you will, in um the ability to go ahead and and uh make I've had my share of sponsors, I know, but sometimes a few years back I was uh sponsored by um uh ultra, like ultra shoes.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

And and um I was their fastest runner, I won their most races, and they didn't want to renew my sponsorship. So um there there's some politics that go into that, um, and that's how it works. Uh at the end of that sponsorship, I kind of said, well, I'm gonna just run for myself and and enjoy it, and and run for Sport Hill too. Uh I I uh ended up um calling up the race director, uh not the race director, the owner of Sport Hill. Um, because I I ran for Sport Hill um 2005 through 2014 or so. And so I um I stopped when I signed on with Hoka. And um so my ultra sponsorship was over, so I called up uh the uh Jim Hill, the owner of Sport Hill, small company in in uh Eugene, Oregon. And uh he was excited to have me back. I was excited to be uh be part of the Sport Hill um team again, uh which is great. At the same time, uh I'm I'm kind of amazed that some people can make a uh full-time living just running some races, uh, which is is always just amazing to me, especially when I can go and sometimes beat half of those runners. Uh and and uh sometimes there's some politics that go into that though.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

What was it like being on that like that early Hoka team? Because that would have been what, 2015, somewhere in that range?

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah, it was uh it was five years. I think it was 20 uh 14 through 2019, 2018, somewhere in there. Uh that was it was really fun. It was great. I was I was uh able to run all over the place. Hoka took me over to uh to Europe a couple times, um a couple other places, uh, so it was great being able to run for them. I was running with uh Sage and and uh a couple other athletes. Um Hoka ended up doing some major uh downsizing. They had something like 30 athletes, and they went down to they kept Sage. They went down, I think they kept two, and Sage is was one of them, and they got rid of the other. So yeah, Hoka did some downsizing, some changing there. Um, but yeah, it was it was great. Tons of travel. Um, like I said, I went to Europe at least twice with them. I it might have even been a third time. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

I mean that and that era too was an interesting one, just like a different different time in the sport, you know. Would you when you kind of look at the sport now for what it is, the corporatism and the progression and stuff like that? Are you are you happy, especially like with where the sport's at? Especially because you were like one of these, no, like you played a giant role in moving the sport forward. A lot of the athletes of your era did. So it's always interesting for me to kind of ask this question to you know, looking looking to where it's at now and then looking backward. Like, did you ever first of all, did you ever think it would get like this? And second of all, are you happy with where where it's at or do you wish it would be a different way?

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Sure. Uh I I think it kind of depends. There's uh there's different race organizations. Um, I'll shout out Mad Moose. They do an amazing job with uh race directing. They they uh uh appeal to everyone, whether they're um the fast pros or or the average runner out there. So they they do an amazing job. Um and then there's there's other races like uh oh the one in Fruta, UTMB just bought it. Um Desert Rats. Um and uh U UTMB at Desert Rats is a good example. I know with the corporatization, uh I I know there's a lot of waste that goes into that, which is I I I feel a little sad I uh with with that, because like the extra food, for instance, could go to food banks or something, uh uh as an example. So some of the corporatization is is a little uh I I I'm not overly happy to see it, the the extra corporatization. Um whereas some of the um races like uh uh you were just there. Um at Tahoe. Uh Broken Arrow.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Bro Broken Arrow, yeah. Uh I I've wanted to run broken run broken arrow since its first year. And uh I think I might have even buyed and signed up, but it it's something that's just always eluded me. Something's always come up. Um I feel like what I've heard, they do an amazing job there. I've I've run it, I haven't seen it yet. Uh so I I know there's ways to um run these races, the corporate races, where you still get a personalized feel to it as like a hometown race. Uh and and and there's there's also a balance to be said. Uh there's there's Imogene Pass with uh 1,500 people. Um a week later is uh U Ray Trail half with 100 people. And um both race uh both races have different feels, uh absolutely. Um but at the same time they both feel like they are are uh catering and working towards the runner. And so I I know community is really important.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Uh the most one of the most important aspects of those races, too.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Absolutely, yes. And so uh I I know with uh Leadville, for instance, they they um I I used to live there. Um after winning, I I moved there for seven years. And uh Lifetime I know uh raises money and gives uh I I'm probably gonna get the number wrong. It was uh a 1,500 scholarship for every graduating senior out of uh uh Lake County High there in Leadville. Uh I I think it's more now. So they they um invest right back into the community. Uh so so I think that's a huge part too, investing right back into the community.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

100%. It's interesting. You mentioned broken arrow, and I've been tussling with this for a while now because I was just like I said, I was just there. It's almost too big now. Like it's huge in a way that you would like it's it's bigger than like half the European races that I like cover. Wow. Yeah, it it's nuts how big it is. Like just with the fanfare and the people. I I think it's amazing that the prize money for the elite athletes. I think that's awesome, and raising the uh you know the profiles of these elite athletes. But I often wonder if maybe it's gotten like too big in a lot of ways, where I still you can we can have both, right? You can have the small race with a hundred people, uh, but and then everybody kind of comes to broken arrow for this big massive throwdown uh of of who's who in the sport. But still, I don't know. I almost was a little blown away by how like big it's gotten. The last time I was there was in 2023, and it has to have grown by like 15 to 20 percent. It's grown since then, dude. It's

Bridger Ridge And Gunnison’s Next Generation

SPEAKER_01 52:00

crazy. Yeah, so I don't know. I I think it's great for the sport, like it's it's obviously great to push the sport forward, but like for me, I don't I'm kind of weird in that way where any and as soon as something becomes like super I even have like a broken arrow thing on, but as soon as something becomes like super popular, I'm like, I don't know if I like it as much anymore, you know. I don't know, because everybody likes it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

You know, I I I gotta shout out one other race too. Um you were mentioning races that really stick out. And there's the bridge a ridge run in uh Bozeman. Um I've I've run it twice now. Um volunteered one one other year, I guess. Uh but uh so the two times I ran it, I was first second. Uh Taylor stacked was second first. Um that the both years really stand out because um racing against Taylor, another good runner, and just uh the the competition there was was was great, and just being able to be with and race against um these amazing runners on these classic courses that are uh extremely challenging. Um Bridger Ridge has, I want to say it's more about the drop there. It's like 5,000 feet gain but 8,000 feet drop. I I think maybe it's 7,500. Is it really that much descending?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

That's and it's over what 1920 miles, something like that. Yeah, that's right. 19 and a half. I was just looking at it too, because I I had come across it and learned about this race maybe I don't know, three or four years ago. And every year I check, I'm like, can I make it fit into the schedule this year? Because I think there's like a lottery system now or something like that, but that is a cool race. That is uh and it's it's the same thing, community vibe, and uh it's just I don't know, the whole community kind of comes out and supports something like that, which is very cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

What do you think as far as uh I mean this might be an out of field uh left field question, but you just brought him up Taylor Stack. Like it must be you must be very proud, especially being a Western guy as well, to see Taylor now really become like one of the best in the world. It's kind of crazy, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Yeah, I I always love to see Western excelling. I know at um uh yeah, he uh his Zem Zagama race recently. He did fantastic there. Well, just looking at Western runners, I'm I'm not overly surprised, but our are um recently you you have uh yeah, you have Taylor, you have Kieran, you have uh Brian, you you have um uh Cole who who went to Western Cole uh oh I shouldn't know Cole's last name. Campbell, yeah, yeah. Campbell, yeah, Cole Campbell as well. Uh so you have all these solid good runners that um have been in the Gunnison Valley, went to Western. Uh so yeah, looking at Taylor and and the other runners, I'm I'm excited for for them.

unknown 55:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

I mean it's cool because you help you kind of pave, you know, all the things that you've done kind of help pave the way for these athletes, and they'll continue to pave the way for younger generations, which is kind of kind of neat to see you know all these generations of athletes kind of come up in the Gunnison Valley and just all the amazing accomplishments between all of you guys.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

It's pretty cool. There, there's the uh statement uh the quote, I'm gonna get it wrong, but it's something like we we stand on the shoulders of giants. So uh on that. So um yeah, I've I've uh there there's been I know I I raced Carpenter uh back in the day, uh and and now racing, say, Taylor Stack. So there's there's a there's a 40-year stint of of uh racers.

Racing Matt Carpenter And Learning Course Smarts

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Carpenter. Carpenter's an interesting one. I he's he's my white whale. I'd love to get him on the show for a chat. I'm working on it right now, but that's an interesting character of a human. Uh did you, having raced him, anything you took away from from those years?

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Because he's sure. Uh you know, I I only raced Carpenter twice, I think, maybe three times. And and uh I I know Carpenter's been uh pretty opinionated, and uh I think when I first heard about some of his opinions, I was a little, I don't know, taken aback, mostly because he didn't want to just uh stand up to the stat, well he stood up against the status quo, is really what he was doing. Um a good example is he to run in um the Vale Hill Climb. Uh to get prize money, you had to be part of USATF, for instance. And so he he would say, well, I'm not gonna pay the $100 fee to win a hundred bucks. And so he'd go and win the Vale Hill Climb and not get the $100 prize money because he wouldn't be USATF. Uh so there's um there's that and similar in concept to maybe what Pre did back before Carpenter. Um so um that was Carpenter's standpoint. I'm I've uh I can definitely see both sides of it and it's it's how it goes. Uh but yeah, he would he would have his opinion on that, and so be it. I'm like, I don't really care.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, I mean I I I meant as well as just like a competitor. He was you know kind of Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

So so actually competing against him, he was he was a fierce giant. Um, you know, I guess I I raced in the same race as him when I um was 18 and did Pikes Peak. Um so but then um I mentioned Vale uh hill climb. There was a Vale race, it wasn't a hill climb that I did on uh I think it was June 6th of uh 2005, maybe six. And um I remember the date because it snowed six inches in June. The night before and the day of. And so they the race directors were scampering to make sure you could find the course and see where you were going. And so the race got underway, and I had no idea where to go, none whatsoever. And it was still snowing, practically white out conditions. And um right away uh it was just Carpenter and myself, and I was on his heels. I remember I was a yard behind him, two yards behind him, and Carpenter knew the course. Um I honestly think I might have been fitter that day, but he knew the course. And so uh we we're running along, and I I have my strategy of run on his his heels and follow him and then sprint to uh ahead and beat him at the finish. That's my strat strategy, uh, which wasn't a good strategy. Uh and the carpenter's strategy was much, much better. It was do a surge and break these uh these uh these young whippersnappers that are behind me, do a surge just so they can't see me, and then they won't know where the course is. So he we rounded a bend, did a surge, got ahead. I rounded the bend, I had no idea where to go. Uh so I I remember I stopped, I had to look and find his footprints. Um third place caught up to me. We found his footprints and then we we continued. But uh um Carpenter easily beat me that day because he knew the course, he ran smarter. Old man's strength.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

That's

Alaska, Iowa, Maine, Minnesota Plans

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

crazy. Well, what a good story, Timmy. We're at about an hour, so I don't want to take too much of your time. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This is an amazing conversation. I could sit and talk to you for hours just sharing stories and and and learning more. Um, hopefully, this is not the last chat. Definitely would love to have you back on uh for more conversations. So definitely want to say uh thank you so much for coming on and good luck in your quest to continue uh winning races in every state. You're very close, so that should tie that up pretty soon. So what else are you where what else are you racing this summer?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

I have two races in Alaska, um Iowa in two weeks, um Maine, possibly in August, Minnesota probably in October. What are you racing in Alaska? I've got two races there. One is um one is Veins of Gold in August, which is pretty competitive. Um the other is this small race in Haynes, and it's something ridge, and I'm gonna butcher the name of it, but it it's a smaller race in Haynes that looks amazing, and so yeah, I got got those two.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Very cool. Yeah, the Alaskan mountain running community is uh has had me enamored. I cannot wait to I'm gonna try to get in the Mount Marathon for next year, and I cannot wait to go to that race.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

So it it it is a fun race to do, great vibes, maybe just enough racing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

James, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Timmy, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And yeah, looking forward to uh to our next chat. Appreciate you. Goodbye. Man,

Final Thanks And Listener Calls To Action

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

shout out to Timmy. What a legend! Thank you so much to Timmy for coming on the show. Uh guy I have looked up to since I came into the sport, and uh just like I said, absolute legend, first ballot hall of famer, and uh someone who did his career correctly. Um before you get going, you can follow him on Instagram. Uh hop on Instagram and it's gonna be in the show notes. You give him a follow at Timmy Parr. Um, guys, a couple more things uh as we close the show out. Um if you haven't already, check out CDUS.us. Cedus is the presenting sponsor of the Steepstuff podcast. Use code Steep Stuff, that's gonna get you 20% off your cart at CDUS.us. Uh again, that's Steep Stuff for 20% off. Um check out some of my favorite items. Uh, it's gonna be the trail three feet insoles. They are amazing for me. Uh they come in a low, mid, and high arch version. Honestly, so so so so so comfortable. And it's helped me uh rehab my foot back um coming back from some some peronial issues. Um and the socks as well. I'm a big fan of the running atomic comfort. Uh running atomic is a is a popular one as well. It's what Mr. Jim Walmsley and Hayden Hawks use and all the all the really cool guys. So um and very, very last but not least, if you have been enjoying the Steep Stuff podcast and you're not following us yet, give us a follow on Instagram at the Steepstuff underscore pod. Give us a follow on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube, hit that subscribe button. It goes a long way for being able to uh continue the work we are doing. And uh if you're liking the show, tell us why. Uh on Apple, write us a little note, give us a uh a review, preferably five stars, and uh that just goes a long way in being able to uh help me to continue to tell these stories. So thank you guys so much. Um and uh really appreciate you tuning in. We are back.