The Steep Stuff Podcast
Professional trail runner James Lauriello sits down with some of the most interesting athletes, coaches, adventurers, and personalities in the mountain running world to take an inside look at what drives them and what it really takes to chase greatness in the mountains.
With no script and no two conversations quite the same, The Steep Stuff Podcast dives deep into the people, stories, and ideas shaping trail, mountain, and skyrunning. From training and racing to adventure, gear, lifestyle, the highs and lows of competition, and everything in between, James brings an athlete’s perspective and genuine curiosity to every conversation.
Whether it’s sitting down with the world’s best mountain runners, emerging talents, legendary figures, or the people working behind the scenes, The Steep Stuff explores what makes these individuals tick, what they’ve learned along the way, and why they continue to push themselves into the mountains. It’s all things trail, mountain and skyrunning—and the people who make the sport what it is.
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#197 - Will Johnson
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Pikes Peak week has a way of making every runner take stock: what am I chasing, and what’s actually worth it when the climb gets real? I sit down with Will, a full-time high school English teacher and developing mountain runner, to talk about the years-long build behind “overnight” progress and why the best performances usually come from a love of the work, not a fear of the result. We trace his path from the Pacific Northwest to Western Colorado University in Gunnison, where day-to-day trail miles with a stacked crew helped shape his approach to training, racing, and staying grounded as the sport gets louder.
From there, we get honest about pressure, self-criticism, and the post-college urge to make something happen immediately. Will explains why he picks races for the place and the experience, even when the elevation gain is intimidating, and why the finish line rarely delivers the fulfillment people expect. We also dig into his coaching relationship with Kieran, how they think in multi-year arcs, and what it takes to rebuild speed and running economy after a big hundred-mile effort while keeping the stoke high for a legendary mountain race.
You’ll also hear how he balances ultrarunning training with the real demands of teaching, why Southern Colorado terrain near Mancos and Durango is an underrated playground for technical trail running, and how music and creative writing keep his creativity sharp. We even go deep on AI and why he and his students push back against shortcuts in art and learning. If you care about trail running mindset, ultramarathon training, and the craft of becoming a better mountain athlete, this one will stick with you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s training for a big climb, and leave a review so more runners can find the show.
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SPEAKER_02Hey guys, welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And before we get started, I have a favor to ask of you. If you follow a podcast, the algorithm is going to update you on the latest and most popular episodes. I'd love for you guys to know when these episodes drop. For things like race previews, breaking news, pre-race interviews, all the good stuff that we throw out there cover in the support. So that way I can deliver you the most value possible. The easiest thing you can do is hit that follow button. It's a simple, easy, and free way to support the show. And I would be so grateful if you guys could take a second on the app you're listening to this right now on and hit that follow button. Thank you so much and let's get into it.
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Pre Pikes Peak Introductions
SPEAKER_02How's it going?
SPEAKER_01I'm really stoked to be here. Excited.
SPEAKER_02Dude, it's uh and I feel like you and I have been texting a bunch. We've talked a bunch. I know you're a giant fan of the pod, and like we're always chatting about races and stuff like that. So I'm just excited to finally like we haven't met like in person person yet, but just excited to have you on for a chat. It's pre-Pikes Peak Week. You're racing this weekend. Uh so I couldn't think of a better time to have you on the show and uh have a conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I'm excited to connect again finally and uh get to chat with you a little bit. And you know, yeah, we are always kind of talking about some racing. And um yeah, I love all the athletes that you highlight on here. A lot of them are my my good friends. So uh yeah, it's gonna be fun to be on myself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. Your uh your old roommate, Sean Macaulay, I was just talking to, and he had uh nothing but but good words to say to say about you. We were we were just chatting a little bit ago. The intern. I guess that's what the Hemings call it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I guess that's the nickname. Yeah, he lived uh kind of right down the hall from me. We lived upstairs in this uh this real like piece of shit house called Mold House, where there they found mold in there the year prior, and so they did some work on they did some work on it. Um yeah, it was a disaster, but yeah, we shared a bathroom, like the lights didn't work in there, and yeah, it was it was a it was a disaster house, but honestly, like yeah, such such good times with with those roommates and uh yeah, Sean especially.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. Dude, it's
Western Colorado And Trail Culture
SPEAKER_02interesting. Like help help me tell some of your story. Like, I know I feel like every time we talk about Western, you know all of these guys, like Taylor Stack, Sidney Peterson, uh Sean McCauley, Cade Michael. Like, I just go down the list and you've like known all of those people. So talk talk about your story, man. Like, what is your story with Western and how you found running?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so as someone kind of coming from the Pacific Northwest or the West Coast or whatever you want to call it, um, when I was kind of searching for some places to run, I just felt like I wasn't getting a ton of love from from back home. And um so that kind of just led me to look some other places and just kind of came across um this Division II school. Um, that was the thing. It was like, oh, like, I don't know if I'm want to try out this D1 thing and uh maybe there's some better options. And I kind of came across this school and said, oh wow, like this looks really cool. You know, I spent the last couple of years kind of helping out like my dad with the beast of Big Creek. Um, so you know, I've been familiar with trail running and of sorts for a long time. Um I just wanted like a different change of scenery, some big mountains, and and I was kind of thinking about like the other day, like the first time I rolled into Gunnison, I was just like, wow, like this place is is really unique, really cold, dead of winter. Kind of was there for a couple of days on a visit, met the coach and everyone. I said, okay, let's let's do it. Um so yeah, I got in contact with the coach again. She had a spot for me, and then uh yeah, I was on my way out there and ended up living there for about six years. And yeah, I was teammates with uh, you know, Kieran and Kate and Taylor and Sean and you know, Joan was around, and Cole Campbell and Jesh was around. And I mean it was just it was hard not to get sucked into running on trails like every day with with all those people around and just just the scenery. Um yeah, I missed that place a lot. Uh it meant a lot to me and like developed as an athlete there quite a bit. Um yeah, it's just such a unique place that uh I think I'll be back someday. Um so stay tuned for that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, dude, I I love to hear that. Does it does it surprise you at all? Because like you grew kind of you know grew up with some of these guys, you know, through your collegiate years. Does it surprise you at all that any of these guys like are now some of the biggest names in the sport? Like Taylor, for instance. Like Taylor is on a rocket ship to the moon with his trail running career. I mean, now he's you know, he's getting on the podium as a gama and doing all this crazy stuff. Joan's the the legend of Joan, and you know, Kieran is Kieran, and it's just interesting to me. Like, did you ever think that you know all of these guys would would become something kind of in trail running, or does it surprise you at all?
SPEAKER_01I mean, it it doesn't really surprise me at all. Just like having spent like years with these guys and see how they work and you know the time and the effort and the care that they put into themselves and their body and the way that they train and the way that they think about things. And then also, you know, they you know, they don't take themselves too seriously. Like they like to have a good time, and you know, I think there's just a lot of a joy around you know, their running and just running in a place like that. Um But yeah, I mean, like, you know, Taylor was like a national champ in the steeple chase, and like I remember watching that, like watching him race like on the stream, and just like you know, never in doubt. Like, you know, these guys line up and you know, they wreak havoc, and it's kind of always been that way. Um and you know, yeah, I'm I'm I'm big fans of all of them, and they're like a huge motivation for me going forward, just with all the success they've had, and just having the ability to know that I've trained with these people and you know been with them as they, you know, kind of have this success. Uh yeah, it's it's a good feeling. And uh yeah, I'm super proud of all all the boys.
SPEAKER_02We'll talk about that, man. Because like you are just you know continuing to improve and improve and get better. We'll talk about who you're coached by soon as well. Uh in Kieran, but like how has it rubbed off on just on your running and your performance and and as you've continued to improve? Like, has that played a massive role? Is just you know, kind of the culture that you know they created at Western and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I mean, definitely. Like, I look up to all those guys uh a lot, you know, whether they've heard it or not, they're gonna hear it now. Um but just it's just kind of like a good like indicator and like validation where it's like, hey, like, you know, you're you're on the right track, you know, like you've you've put in lots of work with these types of people, with these athletes, and you know, a lot of people are on different timelines and trajectories. And I I think like for me, like when I graduated, um, having been like fairly satisfied that you know, with my collegiate career, um, I think I kind of got trapped into this idea of like I need to make things happen for myself almost like immediately, where it's like, oh, you know, if if I'm gonna be in this space, you know, I got to make waves and you know, it's gotta happen. You know, I'm 23, 24, and and now I'm 26 and or almost 26. Um, not much has really changed in that realm, but it it it's big motivation that now all these guys are kind of coming into success where it's like, you know, you're on the right track, like, you know, and if it's meant to be, like, you know, things, things are gonna happen, you know, just kind of stay the course. Um so yeah, that's just kind of big, like a been excuse me, like a big learning experience this year is uh just kind of being comfortable with that space of you know, like, you know, things things will happen um if they're meant to be.
SPEAKER_02I love it, dude. And you like I said, you're on this trajectory of consistent improvement. I mean, A Basin was a great result. I was really happy to see you mix it up there. And uh yeah, I'm excited to see what you're gonna do with Pike's Peak
Pressure Joy And The Why
SPEAKER_02this week. And no pressure, obviously, or anything, but like I think that there's there's a lot of opportunity there for someone like you at a race like this, which would be super exciting. Um, do you put pressure on yourself? Are you I I'm bad with that. I put a lot of pressure on myself, uh, or I at least used to put a lot of pressure on myself. I'm old now, so I don't care. I'm probably at least a decade older than you. So um, as far as pressure goes, how do you kind of reconcile that yeah?
SPEAKER_01I think I think I used to put a lot more pressure on myself during like say like yeah, racing. Um I would say I'm more just kind of critical of myself than like putting pressure where you know, coming into this block, like you know, I had like a couple of worries of, you know, I was like, oh, where's my fitness right now? Like, you know, we just came off like a big hundred mile race, which was, you know, a new experience. And, you know, I was honestly like, you know, quite nervous going into a race like A Basin. Um, that's like the thing about all these events in Colorado is that just, you know, the locals are just they're just crushers. And that's why I love racing regionally because it gives a good opportunity, no matter the field. Um, you know, some 40-year-old dude will be taking us out, and I'm like, you know, who the hell is this dude? And he ends up like kicking my ass. So, you know, you don't have to go far uh to really like put yourself in these in these great race scenarios. Um but yeah, you know, I do think I'm like fairly critical on myself. But uh yeah, I would say going into a basin, like, you know, I was hard on myself, but then coming out of it, it's like, hey, you know, we mixed it up and we're probably in you know, better fitness than what we thought coming in. So, you know, I I thought it was a a successful day out and you know, got to see a lot of friends and such and meet new people, um, run a different style of race, kind of that up-down, you know, real short. It was about, you know, hour 20, so you know, much, much shorter than the previous race. Um yeah, I think going forward, you know, I'd like to be less kind of critical about my results and just the way that I kind of approach um training and racing and such. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's gotta be fun, dude. It's gotta be fun. It's not fun, it's yeah, I mean, that's like the most important thing.
SPEAKER_01That's why I'm doing it. There's been like a lot of reflecting this past year of like, okay, like, you know, why are we kind of doing this? You know, like if you know results don't come, you know, are we still doing it? You know, what what kind of you know, big goals can we set that aren't centered around like results specifically, but just you know, maybe um, you know, certain courses, certain places to go see, or you know, maybe a route. Um yeah, so it it's been uh it's been a real treat kind of racing and training this year.
SPEAKER_02Dude, talk about your why. Like what is your why for doing this? Like, especially coming out of college where a lot of people lose their whys or they're not sure of of what it is. Like a lot of for a lot of folks, it's just this, well, I did it in college and I'm gonna continue it and we're just gonna do the damn thing. You seem like you have a genuine love for it though. Like to to attempt a hundred miles at 25, 26 years old, like you you really kind of like suffering. And I don't know, it just seems like you know, through through your social media and and just like getting to know you over you know the last few months, like you seem like you do genuinely love the sport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I try to keep the stokage pretty high. Um and I I've been involved in the sport for a really long time and I've got to see a lot of these um a lot of these kind of characters uh progress through the sport. Um, you know, people like like Anton and and stuff like are kind of like a big like influence on me, or you know, at least they kind of showed to me that, you know, you can kind of do what you want, look the way you want, and you know, just have like a genuine time kind of exploring different terrains. Um I feel as if I go into a race selection, you know, a lot of times I'm not super like worried or I'm not really looking too much at the profile. Kind of like the first uh ultra I did was Speed Goat 50K. And it was only about like a month before I erased it where I was like, ah man, I'm kind of reading about this and like it kind of looks like one of the harder 50Ks in the world. And I just didn't really know that at the time. But you know, it looked challenging. There was a lot of vert, and you know, and it was, you know, I'd never kind of ran in Utah Mountains before. Um, so I was like, okay, like, you know, let's do it. Like this looks fun. And, you know, similar to, you know, this Scout Mountain Hunter that I just did, you know, my sister went to school in Idaho. I hadn't been back there in a while. Um, and I haven't spent much time in Pocatello. And I said, okay, these mountains, they look, they look cool. 24,000 feet of gain later, you know, I wouldn't expect anyone to pick that as a first go, but um, you know, to me, I'm just not I'm not super like worried about that. I'm more just kind of worried about, you know, am I gonna enjoy the place or the race or the experience? And if it's, you know, if it's a hard event, it's a hard event, and you know, I'll figure it out like once I get there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Dude, I think it's you're spot on. It's funny, man. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I was listening to I'm like a big Ben Diemon Glazer. Like I love Ben Diemon. Obsessed with like the dude the way the dude trains. For people who don't know, he just won UTMB. I've been calling it since like last year that the dude's gonna win UTMB this year. But anyway, long story short, he was talking to Finn recent, Finn recently on a pod. And they were talking about like, do you do you feel fulfilled after like achieving this big thing? And he goes, no. Why would anybody feel fulfilled after achieving something? Like you're not gonna get yourself uh, you're not gonna feel like you'll feel great after achieving something, right? But like you're not gonna get like uh self-fulfillment from from an achievement from a race or something like that. Whereas the experience is more something that you'll get the self-fulfillment from, not the result, not the achievement, not the thing. It took me a long time to like wrap my head around that because I I used to think in terms of well, if I if I win the Sirk Series race or I get on the Sirk Series podium race or whatever, like I'm gonna be, I'll feel fulfilled, like I just did the damn thing. I've had races where I wasn't even close, but like had tight battles and felt great about my performance where uh I got the best out of myself. And that's what led to the fulfillment. Where do you stand on that? Like, are you are you do you do you look at races for wanting fulfillment or do you get your fulfillment from the from the experience?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's from like the experience. I mean, take this last race that I completed for example. You know, I it was it was a tough day out there. It it probably went as as good as it could have gone for, you know, a first experience in a really, really tough, brutal hundred. You know, the last 20 miles, I was like shedding a couple of tears. I was just so bummed that it was gonna be over soon. You know, I still had a couple of hours to to kind of march it in. But yeah, when you put in like a lot of work for something, especially something so unknown. And then, you know, kind of you go through the experience and then you get close to the line and you're like, oh man, like, you know, this this is kind of over. But then I think for me, then it just kind of, you know, there's a lot of internal reflection. It's like, well, you know, I I loved that, and you know, I'm looking for more of that, and you know, I think I can do better next time. So then it's just all about, well, let's go, you know, search for like a new experience and you know, and see what's what's different, or you know, can we take off five hours, 10 hours? Um, you know, what can we do to improve? Um, so yeah, I think for me, I I was bummed that it was over, but you know, then it made me excited for you know maybe something coming up in in 2027.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah. Dude, I'd love
Coaching With Kieran For Years
SPEAKER_02to hear it. Talk about talk about your experience or talk about your relationship with Kieran, who's your coach. And I will say, I preface one thing. Like, Kieran's an amazing athlete. Like, I I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the Pikespeak Marathon this year. Like, I have a lot of like immense respect for him. But one of the things I was amazed by in the last conversation I had with him was his coaching prowess. Like his coaching hat is very legit. Like he's a brilliant coach. Talk about your relationship with him as your coach and how that relationship has kind of evolved and developed over the years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Kieran was actually the first person I met in Gunnison. So he was he was currently on the NCAA team when I was about to come in as a freshman. And so he hosted me. Um, so yeah, we spent some time together on that first visit. And, you know, I sent him a text after and I was like, hey, I'm gonna come here. And it was like, okay, cool. Yeah, excited to you know see you again. Like we'll be on the team together. And then when I came, he decided to leave. And I think one thing, um, you know, our our relationship just kind of kept going, and I remained friends with him after he left the team um to go kind of pursue his own trail endeavors. Um, and we we we kind of just continue that relationship. I ended up using him for a lot of my like small um documentary work um and other audio projects throughout throughout college that I was kind of majoring in. And so he was always kind of my my guinea pig and was always willing to uh kind of be behind camera or be you know recorded, have his voice being used. And and so yeah, we we made a number of things together. Um, I had always kind of you know followed along with his running, and I think he's highly underrated like in the American scene. I mean, the guy's just like the nastiest climber ever since you know, since he was like a teenager. Like he's been able to climb with like the best of the best for so long. And yeah, I'm really stoked about the last couple of seasons he's had. I had graduated and you know, I had known that I wanted to run on the trails a little bit. And I, you know, right off the bat, I was like, oh, I'm gonna run like 100K or you know, I want to run a hundred mile. You know, I've been thinking about that since I was like maybe 17 or 18. And so, you know, having just like a support system around to be like, you know, like, oh, maybe we should like try, you know, a couple of shorter races and like see how those go. And like, you know, maybe not jump up and you know. So he definitely kind of put things into like more of like a long game perspective to me, which I'm super grateful for. I went and ran GoPro games, got my ass kicked, and then I was like, look, man, like we went and got coffee. I was like, hey man, like I need help. Like I don't know like how to structure, and like, you know, I would really like want to have someone to kind of guide me a little bit. Um, and so yeah, we've been doing that since like 2024 uh that summer. And yeah, it's great. We just kind of talk about big goals, like he's always kind of validating and giving good confidence my way. And what I like about Kieran is you know, he's he's willing to chat about things two, three, five years in the future. Um, just because you know, I I think just building versatility and you know, building big goals along the way and in search of other things that I've thought about for a really long time. I I think that's what made me excited about the trails in the first place was just the opportunity to go after things that I knew were maybe you know five, ten years down the line instead of like, you know, right now, present day big projects. projects and such. Um so yeah, he you know he's just done that like out um out of the kindness of his heart. And um yeah he's been a big support for me um in this journey. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02I it's it's it's cool because I don't know. I just love seeing everybody kind of come up together. Like Karen's di continues to develop and get better and damn well should be a professional athlete in the sport and hopefully will be I would imagine sooner rather than later. Again and helping you develop and grow and get better and improve and and and helping you on your journey. So I just love to see like the the rising tide kind of lifts all all trips kind of thing which is which is dope. Yeah man he's a he's a good coach he taught me dude the last time I talked to him he taught me a few things that I was like oh dude really about that that's really wisdom.
SPEAKER_01He's got a master's um you know he's yeah he he's he's a smart guy like he's very articulate in the way that he speaks about things and um I think one thing that I like to see I I think he enjoys kind of the challenge of writing for you know maybe a different uh style um I don't I don't know if he is still uh being coached by someone but um you know like our our trainings are very different and you know what we prioritize in racing are very different and um it's nice just to have like a different set of eyes on it that's kind of unbiased.
SPEAKER_02You know I think if I had my way with it I probably wouldn't be able to show up to these things prepared in the right way or you know I just go out and run for a couple hours every day and like have fun, maybe a little too much fun and you know get myself in situations that probably wouldn't help me out for the best so yeah he's he's an amazing tool and and uh and a good friend uh to have so what does it look like for training for you especially like balancing life as as a teacher and like what you do professionally like you know for what you do professionally do you do you just like I don't know like 20 hours 17 hours 15 hours how much how how much time do you put in as far as a week goes kind of to your your blocks?
Training While Teaching Full Time
SPEAKER_01Yeah so it you know it just it just kind of varies for for what the focus is at the moment um yeah when we started training for a hundred it it was a like took a long time to get there and so you know I wouldn't say that I run like crazy volume but you know for me at the time for where I was you know is the most volume I was doing and you know it turns into a lot of you know headlamp hours after um the school day we have a four-day school week so we don't get out until the students don't leave until 410. So you know getting home like getting the dog out a lot of times kind of closer to the fall winter you know a lot of treadmill workouts or headlamp in the dark um which I don't mind that you know I I I like getting out there every day um as far as going into pikes um it was a lot more focused on kind of running economy um I tried to do two workouts a week but man I was just just really cooked um and I think the kind of the come down from the hundred and the recovery was maybe lingering around a little bit longer than I was hoping for. But I think that that was just kind of the challenge is um just going from you know let's beat our body up to be ready for this to now let's run fast again.
SPEAKER_02So yeah it's been a fun challenge to you know incorporate more you know a little bit more speed work and shorter fast hills and um yeah it's just been a huge focus to be as versatile as possible you know like you know run a hundred miles like run a nine mile race run a marathon you know run Pike's peak it's probably going to run closer to a 50k um you know I pace someone in a hundred this year we were out there for 10 and a half hours you know that that's kind of closer to a a quicker 100k effort so it was really just kind of about you know spreading out across the spectrum um and just developing the skills that came with with each thing and regardless in you know what I want to specialize in or I don't know I I really don't like the word specialized because I don't see why you can't do multiple distances it within a year but um yeah this year was just was just about building the skills um in everything you know it won't hurt and uh it only helps out yeah it's uh it's I don't know it's definitely special to be able to do like I I I'm always impressed with folks that can run a hundred miles and then also drop down to do the really fast stuff and can figure out their way around both and and be like pretty good at both. It's kind of wild. Whereas like I would die running uh there's no way like I dude like the figuring out happens in the arena.
SPEAKER_01That's the thing you just kind of show up and you just run hard and you know that's that's how it goes sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Oh dude I can't even do an eight hour day I was out we were my wife and I were in the Tetons last week and with the dogs and we did this like huge loop from Hurricane Pass to Alaska basin and down. It was supposed to be like a 16 16 mile day something like that or it's supposed to be a 14 mile day I don't know really wasn't supposed to be like very long shouldn't have to us more than a few hours. Did we turn into like a seven and a half hour day I was dead by the time it was like um it's like I I didn't pack any nutrition. It was just a clock I'm still tired from it. I was like oh my God like what are we doing? So yeah anytime you could be out for like a long period of time uh it's it's always impressive and it's that's what it's all about having fun and surviving in the mountains. So when it shift gears a little bit how how do you find balance man being able to especially as a young professional as a teacher you know obviously you know job comes first work comes first. Is it hard for you to be able to find that balance to still train uh you know with intention and with you know with goals in mind how difficult is it for you to kind of lock in and do those things?
SPEAKER_01Yeah I mean sometimes it's you know it it's extremely like difficult and a lot of times you know stress is stress and you know if I got to get ready for um you know if we have like a a a parent teacher conference or you know we got staff meetings or you know the first week of school is always kind of a mess. There's lots of meetings there's lots of obligations to be places and you know you just kind of have to roll with the punches. It's it's all a part of the gig and you know doing things outside of contract hours and and yeah that's you know that's all things that I'm very willing to do um in that I you know I get fulfillment from doing this job. I think like just to to keep that balance is you know I always got to notch a little part out of the day um whether that be you know in the nighttime or sometimes early in the morning um or maybe go a bit heavier on the weekends like you know oh maybe I can't do this workout Thursday night but we can do it Friday morning okay great there's no school okay we'll just have to you know take Saturday a little bit easier and then you know we can focus on you know a big a big long run. And so I think just being flexible um has really just been super important to me and being able to rotate days um yeah it's almost like splitting the day in half like the first part of the day is come here, perform at work and then you know how do we figure out a way to you know get things done and you know feel like we've put in the necessary work for the day whether that's getting on the treadmill or you know lifting some weights if that is you know a part of the regimen. Yeah so I mean it's extremely challenging but you know it's it's allowed me to sign up for races, um have a little bit more money in my pocket so I can you know go do these things that I I love so much and you know I can't complain about having extra time on the weekend. It's pretty amazing just because we live in such a nice place. There's so many places to explore so yeah sometimes I wish it was a different way but you know other times you know I I can't complain one bit. It's it's truly just been amazing being down here and having an opportunity to have a job like this.
SPEAKER_02Do you get how do you like summers off or do you get summers off like for the most part?
SPEAKER_01Yeah so I I do get summers off. So you know the structuring races kind of having my big ones land in the summer were maybe kind of that last um that last kind of most important block you know I'll have all day every day free um to you know get that done. Yeah I mean that that's just really important in like race selection um and then also just enjoying the summer going out and having big mountain days just because there's more time there's not as many things that you have to be available for or present at um but then yeah once the school year starts and it's every day you know you gotta be um got to be on your A game and you know perform for the students and you know have a great classroom environment for them.
SPEAKER_02Is it uh how is it? Because I mean you're young you're you know 25 turning 26. I'm dude I'm an unk at this point. I'm I'm fucking ancient. How is it with uh like kids? Does it keep you young? Does it like how I don't know how old kids you teach but like does it kind of you know I don't know just keep you young on things and keep things fresh? Like how is that for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah so I teach ELA I'm in the English department uh I mainly have the seniors uh and they honestly they make it so so easy on me uh they really truly are a joy to be around they're some of the funniest like people there are like something about like the I mean yeah they have no filter sometimes but they really just say like the funniest the funniest things. And so yeah it's a joy to come in and work with them and um and just kind of build a relationship with them to you know kind of help them along their journey and um yeah I I think we have a good classroom environment and we keep it light we keep it fun I I don't take myself too seriously and we usually don't have too many issues in here. So um yeah it it's a good time being able to see them kind of put some good work forward. And you know I come from a long line of teachers I guess you could say you know my my dad my sister a lot of other people in my family either you know worked for a a school district or a school themselves. So um yeah you know I've I've had a lot of time to observe all those people kind of in their element teaching. So yeah I just kind of bring uh bring some some fun into the classroom every day and and hope that they have a good time as well. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Are they like baffled by you? Like they're like oh Professor Will runs a hundred miles like this guy's this guy's nuts like are they uh or do they do they think it's like super cool?
SPEAKER_01Yeah sometimes we talk about it a little bit there's always yeah there's always like a a surprise of it's like oh like how do you do that or why would you ever do that? And it's like how long is that gonna be I was like well you know I was out there for like you know 20 almost 28 hours and like just running and I'm like well like you know there's like a little hiking and you know you're eating along so it it's fun to share that with them just because it it's kind of you know it's it yeah it's foreign to a lot of people not just students but you know some other people in the community um yeah um but yeah I get I get a kick I get a kick out of them they always got some some funny shit to say about it.
SPEAKER_02So I
Mancos Terrain And Quiet Trails
SPEAKER_02love it. You're so you're in Mancos, right? Is that like uh how do you like being down there and training out of that area?
SPEAKER_01Yeah so yeah we're in Montezuma County right now. I'm kind of in between Dolores and Mancas right now and man it it's such a unique area it's kind of on the southernmost slopes of the San Juans and you kind of get this interesting variation of terrain um you know we're kind of at the start of the desert you know there's Mesa Verde National Park that's only about 10 minutes from where I live that kind of spans the length of the valley and then at the you know at the top of the valley then you got this small I guess well it's not really small but you know it's it's kind of a like a kid version or something of the San Juans. It's called the La Plata's and those are you know peaks that reach 13000 plus and man let me tell you about this terrain it's just amazing it's steep it's rocky it's technical there's lots of roads there's lots of single track outside of town there's a ton of kind of forested rolling trails I mean we can get to slick rock within you know an hour or two you know Moab's right down kind of right down the road maybe an hour and a half really just any anything you want to train you know you you can do it out here. Durango is about 50 minutes away and their trail network is absolutely incredible as well 90 minutes to the San Juan's or you can head up towards Rico telluride and you can get you know the Wilson kind of peaks area that uh Lizard Head Wilderness it's just incredible how much is kind of at your um disposal out here.
SPEAKER_02Wow this is Candyland dude you got everything out there that's awesome I know the Lapadas are dope. I've never run never run in the Lapladas before but I have to check them out yeah it's on the list. Yeah it's always funny like um every time I have someone like Robin Lesch or somebody on from Durango we're always like downplay it because you know everybody wants to go out there and run.
SPEAKER_01It's like let's keep keep it on the DL and gate keep it you know yeah there's definitely like a there's like a small like pro like presence within Durango. I mean yeah we got you know Candymama like Tara Dower is down there now and Robin's there and um you know I I follow an athlete called Kyle Curtin who's yeah definitely well known yeah within kind of the multi and like kind of these longer efforts. I I believe he holds kind of the the the Colorado trail record currently I I could be wrong but um yeah that's like there's definitely a presence here but man you would just think by like with the trail network that Durango has that it I mean it could be something like a boulder like it's really that good and the terrain is that good and you can train for anything from like western states to a UTMB so it's like man like I I run a lot alone and you know maybe the community's not as big out here for me but man like I'm surprised that not as many people have like stumbled across it yet. So yeah it's a joy for the best yeah yeah I like a little I'm a big fan of under the radar work. Um that's the great thing about living out here like running a lot of places no one's been um no one knows who I am you know so I can just kind of go and do things freely and not have to worry about it. Yeah it it's a good time to to fly under the radar.
SPEAKER_02It is no for sure for sure dude I mean you know we talk about this like I'm I'm in the springs and I just feel like every year it just gets more and more densely populated. I used to think like oh well it's not that bad and it's uh you know it's not that like for a metro area like you the trails are pretty uh you know pretty quiet but like now I think 999% of the trails I'm on are social trails because I'm just not trying to like hang out with people.
SPEAKER_01I don't know I'm uh yeah you run out here and you don't really see anyone like you could run you know long runs in the La Plata's you see maybe one person you know kind of hiking up with their poles or you see the same people you know
Creativity Music And AI Pushback
SPEAKER_01you see the same dogs and the same people like every weekend and it's like oh hey how's it going like but yeah it doesn't get too crowded um yeah it it's uh it's nice to kind of disappear a little bit yeah what do you besides like you know what you do professionally for teaching and then running like what are you are you into like any other hobbies like fly fishing biking anything like that I love uh I love music a lot I play a little guitar um I used to sing a lot uh back in the day so music yeah it's just another element that brings a lot of joy into my life like listening to records and such and in in writing and and creating I'm a big uh you know I like the arts a lot I I push that a lot and um yeah I was happy to to come here and to share kind of my love of creation with the students we we have a a creative writing class um or I or I teach them how to write kind of pilot TV episodes in a script format. Yeah it it's my favorite time of the year uh so we're gonna come up on it here soon um and and I'll share some of my work with them and then I get to see um it's amazing watching like students, you know, teenagers they don't think that they can like produce that much writing and then you know we we break out into this script format and these kids are giving me like 30 pages. I'm like dude you just wrote a 30 minute episode like you know 30 pages equals 30 minutes like dude that's a TV episode you know like we can do these hard things you know we can we can create and and and have fun and do good work. So yeah those those are some other of my uh kind of creation hobbies that I enjoy that is so cool.
SPEAKER_02Dude so what are you where do you stand now then especially as as a creator or just a creative in general like what's your take on this AI situation? Because I I hate it. Like I'll use chat for a few things like for work I'll use it for like like sequel and stuff sometimes for like coding but for like anything creative I refuse to use it for because I feel like that just takes away from an artist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I don't know I think there's like uh I think that's kind of the reason why people create in the first place is you know because they gotta figure they got to figure it out like it's all about the tinkering and you know like you know if you're writing a song or something or you're writing a story right like you're gonna get stumped right but I think the the fun thing is you know figuring out how to get to point A to point B or you know maybe I have a point B and a C, but I don't have an A yet and and at least for me like you know working things out like starting with a really bad product and then seeing over time like oh how do I make this product better? I in college uh yeah like I I would put a lot of my work say with you know Kieran like on YouTube but I would also kind of dabble in my own sort of um YouTube videos as well and man there's some pretty bad content out there that I've made but you know watching it get better and like being able to refine those skills and not taking any shortcuts you know how to work a camera how to edit and and use all these softwares that were you know so foreign to me at the time um yeah I I'm just not super into like those kind of shortcuts. So yeah actually like a group of my students they like are have this petition going on to uh ban the use of it within the high school and so they're like it's like oh let me see the QR code let me put it on my door um I don't know if I'm supposed to do that but um yeah like I want them to be able to speak about that freely and like I'm glad that they are like kind of bummed that you know a lot of artwork on t-shirts and posters is you know maybe being generated with AI and you know they're such great artists themselves like I'm like man we got so many of these kids that we can use their skills and like really highlight them and put them on a pedestal.
SPEAKER_02Yeah so I'm I'm gonna support them in that endeavor and you know yeah they definitely kind of know my my stance on it but um yeah some some things work out and some things don't um um but yeah we're gonna keep pressing forward and and just kind of highlighting those skills that they bring to the table instead of delegating it to uh AI I think yeah no and I think it's I mean I'm just super impressed sitting here right now like that they that they're aware enough and awake enough to know that this is something that's gonna like genuinely impact whatever they do with the rest of their life as as seniors or as young as young you know kids that shouldn't really be thinking about that stuff but they are and they're awake enough to get it. Um yeah like I I'm very yeah I mean the the audience knows where I stand on it. I'm I'm pretty difficult about how much I hate AI. But like let me tell you man about those these these kids man
SPEAKER_01I I tell you, they are, I just think there's like such a bad kind of rap for like high schools like within the US, like right now. Like the schooling system is going through a lot of changes. And, you know, I think a lot of these students get like put down and they're not highlighted enough. And let me tell you, man, these kids uh they know what they're doing, they know what they're talking about, they advocate for themselves. A lot of them work, they're not afraid of money, like they're go-getters. Um, and yeah, I think that needs to be highlighted more. So I'm gonna highlight them whenever I get a chance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, dude, you gotta remember too, like me being a decade older than you, like I grew up in a time and went to college in a time where like money was free, right? We had like super low zero interest rates. And like it was it was just a different world. Like there was a lot more prosperity and things are different. And now things are much harder. And I think to grow up in, I mean, things are just not as easy as they used to be, in my opinion. I think everything's a grind, a little bit more difficult. So, and it got a little bit harder for your generation, which you know, a decade down the line, and then think another decade down the line, the kids you're teaching, it's gonna be even harder. So you have to be scrappy. You have to be, you have to have a different mentality towards things, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're just they're they're mo they motivate me, and it's a joy to be able to come here every day and then you know go go for a run after. So it's been uh it's been a nice life to live so far.
SPEAKER_02What is uh and you can you can choose your words wisely on this and how because I understand like it from a it's a school perspective. Like what it what does the school because like I I work for instance for a giant corporation, right? Everything's fucking clawed, clawed, clawed claw, clawed, right? They they suck clawed as much as they possibly can. What it does schools like from an administrative perspective, and this is just me out of being purely curious, do they push it? Or is it more like freedom of thought and freedom of openness? Like, is it depend on the school? Like, how how does that work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I would imagine kind of like demographics would would uh would have to come into play or just kind of where you're situated within the US. Um you know it it's tough, like some things they just they just kind of happen and you know you kind of have to roll with it. And um yeah, I I think like a lot of districts have their struggles, but also some excel in in certain things. And I think it's it's really hard to be a part of administration. There's a lot of people who don't like you and who um say not nice things about you and they don't support you, and you know, there's a lot of pressure. Um and and so yeah, a lot of times I don't know like who exactly is making decisions. Um but it's all about just kind of like your frame of mind and how you frame it to students and you know, things that you could control, like whether you know, in your classroom and the environment that you create, um, regardless of all the kind of like whatever, the rah-rah that's kind of happening around. And so I mean, that's kind of mainly where my focuses lie. Um but yeah, I mean it's obviously it's a pretty slippery slope these days.
SPEAKER_02So
Beast Of Big Creek Origins
SPEAKER_02yeah, yeah. All right, let's shift gears a little bit. Let's get back to running. Uh, I gotta ask you, you you hinted on this earlier in the episode, probably in the first like five minutes, about Beast of Big Creek and the race itself. So for folks that don't know, that race um, you know, is very near and dear to you. Family started that race. This year it was on the um, you know, obviously it'd been taken over by uh Matthias Eichler, uh friend of the podcast, and it was on the World Skyrunner series this year. Talk about that meaning of that race to you and uh just how special the Olympics are in that whole area.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'd kind of been that I mean, kind of putting on that race is is is how I got introduced into this world of trail running. Um, you know, and my dad kind of introduced me into some some media and some movies and documentaries kind of around this space at the time. But we had kind of started, at least my dad kind of was obviously backpacking most of it. Um you know, he had uh some athletes or some students that, you know, would always kind of have some ideas or some senior project. Um so yeah, one of my sister's good friends kind of landed on this idea of you know racing at Big Creek. Um and at the time they weren't running to the summit yet, if I if I remember correctly. I think we started in like 2010. There might have been like 50 people. Um just a 10K on kind of like this forest loop with uh you know fast ascent and like a fairly steep kind of grind to the top of the hill and back down. Um but yeah, I was super involved with that. It was a lot of going to the grocery store and you know, buying fruit snacks and little candies and aid gallon jugs of water. Um, I would mark the course with my dad, um, you know, stock AIDS, and then you know, I'd race the next day. Um, so I'd kind of got to be behind the scenes and then also, you know, try my hand at racing for the first time, like a little 10K distance. So my dad kind of kept that up, and you know, we started racing to the summit, and you know, everyone who's everyone out there has done Mount Eleanor. It's like probably one of the most heavily trafficked mountains in the entire state. It's kind of this gateway to the Olympics, and you kind of have this big open view to Olympus and you know, all the other kind of rocky peaks within the peninsula, you're kind of looking on into the mountains. Just such a special place. It's kind of where I started running up mountains and on trails to begin with. And um, you know, when he kind of handed that off, I kind of think everyone kind of took a step back from the race and you know, was kind of not super invested for a couple of years. And, you know, seeing this happen really just kind of you know reminded me of those experiences. And, you know, I have great memories of marking the course and racing. And yeah, I mean, I think I'd love to, you know, be an R like an RD myself, like one day, you know, I got all these ideas floating around and you know, firsthand having like helped an event like that is just yeah, it was really important to me that it it kind of got put on a pedestal this year, and you know, to have people from South America, Europe, the American heavy hitters like all show, you know, Cole went out there too, and I was like, you know, I was so happy that like, you know, someone I knew or like some friends went out there just to kind of see this place that you know I think is like one of the best places on earth. You know, it's right in the backyard, like only 50 minutes from the house. Um, but yeah, it is really special to kind of see that take off and have the media around it. And you do a bunch of you know, kind of introductions to the race and you know, having the pre-race on. I I couldn't believe it. I was so stoked the whole time, that whole week and the whole lead up to it. I was like, man, this is freaking awesome! And yeah, it was just an incredible thing to kind of watch that unfold in front of my eyes, just because you know, it was such a fun event to put on. And you know, I'd love to go back and and and run it myself. And you know, hopefully there would still be a deep field there. And if not, you know, it's still like the best course ever. So yeah, really special moment to have that happen, I think for me, but yeah, just also everyone in my family and and people who have been a part of it for for so many years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Dude, I love it. I it's so crazy, like and just so special to have something that means that much to you and you know, see where it's grown and and where it's going. Dude, you gotta go race it next year. I mean, I've heard I know, I gotta get out. I think it'll probably, I mean, I don't know. I haven't talked to Matias, but from the last time I talked to uh the Skyrunner people, I know they want to do like more skyrunning races in the United States, so there's no reason to think that it wouldn't probably be on the World Series again next year. So it's uh yeah, I want to check it out. It's just you know for me, the scheduling was just a pain in the ass. I wasn't able to pull off the problem, dude. The problem with the podcast is a good problem to have, but like, man, I just get pulled in a lot of directions. Like every there's a lot of races out there, dude. And then I have my own consolidator race.
SPEAKER_01There's so many good ones out there. Yeah, we'll get to them eventually, you know. Yeah we'll knock them off a little bit.
Bucket List Goals And Inspirations
SPEAKER_01That's the best part.
SPEAKER_02What is anything uh that you like what is your bucket list race? Like, what's something you haven't done yet in in your 26 years of of living that you want to do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean I I got a few, like definitely like we're curating accurating a big list. Um yeah, there's a couple that are must before the career's over. I mean, even though like the style and just kind of the nature of the course is maybe a little bit different um than I would hope for, like nowadays, and and kind of what I aspire to run on. Like I I gotta do states. Like, you know, it's probably the reason why I wanted to do the thing in the first place. Um yeah, like my dad introduced me to that film Unbreakable. You know, we would like screen it before the beast, you know, we'd be out there with the cross country team and we'd watch that, and it would be like, you know, watching Jeff and Killian and Anton and Helen be like, man, that looks freaking awesome. Like, I gotta do that one day. And that was like maybe, yeah, I was like maybe 17 or 18. So that's gotta be a must. I think if I was to take that on, I would need a bit more time and support. And, you know, it would take a lot more than what I could probably give as far as like work schedule and travel and kind of budgeting for something like that. Um, eventually we'll get to that, but I think there's some other things currently that are a bit more intriguing to me. Um high loan some hundred is is something that I'm really shooting for in 27, getting out of the lottery on that. It's kind of my first introduction to big mountain running, uh, living in Gunnison, just kind of driving down to the collegiance and um the Saw Watch. So that one I'm definitely willing to kind of want to project it the next couple of years if I don't get in this year. I got a few routes in mind, you know, like FKT routes. Um, a few of them are really intriguing to me. Something like the collegiate loop, I think would be really cool. Um I I had watched uh or no, I was listening to a podcast where Courtney was talking about it because I was kind of looking into it and I was like, man, there's not much like media involved around this, and it's such a cool loop. It just kind of circumnavigates that whole chain of mountains. And and I was listening to a podcast, she was talking to Debo about it, and she's like, Oh, like, and I wish more people would do it. And I was like, you know, that's all I had to hear. You know, I was like, man, like let's do this. And then as much as I hate to say it, like 200s really interest me a lot. Um so yeah, you know, I I've raced four, I'll I'll race four times this year. That that's kind of a lot for me. The last two years I've raced four times. I know some people race double digits, but you know, for me in my schedule, like yeah, four four's a lot. Um so yeah, like you may only see me race maybe two or three times next year, and it may be, you know, something kind of out there. Um so yeah, it's uh it's nice to kind of express those goals. And um, yeah, but yeah, we got we got some big stuff that intrigues me that it's like, you know, why not? You know, if I fail, then I fail and no one's gonna hear about it. So uh I think it's I think it's good to put um those those kind of goals out there.
SPEAKER_02Any uh any like European races? Like, dude, I gotta be honest, like I was listening to Finn's uh the single tracks uh Tour de Jean uh preview. And obviously it's something I would never do, but it's definitely something that like inspires me. Like that's that's a crazy race, dude.
SPEAKER_01Like 200 miles. I think like I think of if I was to go to yeah, and like there's some races on the bucket list that are definitely in Europe, you know, I'd love to do the full loop or you know, kind of kick things off with like an OCC or a CCC. That's all you know things that I would I would like to do. Um, I think for me, um there's a couple of things I I would love to you know prove to myself or kind of validate myself before you know I kind of go over there. If I'm gonna go over there, I I want to be prepared. Um, and I don't want to head over there just to just to head over there and like finish and have, you know, or struggle through a day. So I so I think staying maybe a bit more stateside, like really trying to, you know, craft these skills and just kind of you know be the perfect version I can on the most rugged terrain here and just practice and practice and practice and um really just be satisfied with you know how I'm performing here before I you know think about, oh, let's go, you know, do the big loop, or you know, let's go, you know, knock off something like a transgrand canaria or something, like a couple of those island, island crossings look really interesting and rugged. Um yeah, I I think there's lots of time to do those. You know, uh I'm about to turn 26. A lot of these podiums, top tens are made up with, you know, 30, 35-year-olds. So, you know, I don't see why I don't see why I can't just kind of get better every year and you know, kind of uh, you know, work on the craft and you know run some big races here and then I guess you know take the talents overseas, I guess you could say. But yeah, um yeah, lots of lots to look forward to, I think.
SPEAKER_02Who inspires you in in the sport right now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean there's a lot of people that inspire me. I think uh I love Zach Miller a lot. You know, watching kind of his his his approach to training, going into that hard rock, you know, kind of before he had to get his appendix removed, you know, it was just almost unfathomable to me. Like just the volume in the vert and the time of you know, the time on feet he was spending for something like that. And so I think that was just inspiring of like, okay, like, you know, there's a lot of room to grow, and there's a lot of room, you know, to like explore like volume and like how much do you want to do, and like can you do these types of things? I think for me though, like Courtney is just like she's my favorite, and she's just the best. Um, she was a school teacher at one point. Just love her energy, um her smile. Yeah, she's just a joy to to watch, and yeah, I think she's a good uh a good role model to a lot of us. I'd say more recently, just because I had uh an experience with her. Um when I ran my hundred, um, I ran a lot through the night with Devin Yanko and Rachel Entrikken. And we were kind of going back and forth for about 20 miles. So I ended up for hours running with Rachel and Devin and watching them run together. And Rachel was like helping Devin get through the night. And you know, I I didn't have a pacer, but you know, just kind of chatting with Rachel and watching her run and and then also like seeing what she just did at Coca-Dona and UTMB, like, you know, she was just kind of jogging around in the middle of the night with the headlamp, like she's there to help out, but I could just tell the way that she was moving over the terrain. I was like, wow, like I don't know if this woman is gonna be beat within the next five years. Like, I truly think she's next level, and I don't think she's gonna lose very many races from here on out. Um, so yeah, I think she's quite extraordinary. So yeah, so that's like a few people that I um enjoy in the space quite a bit. Of course, all the you know, all the goats, you know, killing in Jim, they're all great, you know. Everyone is is amazing. Um, I think could take a lot from each person.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, there's definitely traits of each person that you look at and you're like, oh, that's like uh different people have different like things. But Rachel, do I think Rachel's the next big thing? Like I really do. I think if if I'm you know buying stock, it's probably racial trickle. 100 100%.
SPEAKER_01Like it's just like watching her run over the terrain, like she just made it look so easy. And yeah, she wasn't racing, but I could just tell the way she was talking to me. And it was just, yeah, that was also a great experience, very nice. She kind of took care of me out there um as we were kind of going back and forth on the climbs and the descents. And yeah, like her her first go at UTMB was just incredible. And I was, you know, I I figured I was like, man, she's gonna have a good one. Like she she just knows she knows how to battle. And so yeah, I I would say more recently she's she's been like a big uh inspiration to just kind of strive for you know big events, big distances, and not really care what anyone says about you, pretty much, you know. Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's uh it's gonna be cool to see where things go, especially like for her, man, dude. Like just out of the like uh I don't know, just very quickly went from Coca Dona, which you know a few years ago wasn't crazy competitive, now very competitive, obviously smashed that in what was probably the performance of the last five years, and then had a great one in UTMB. And sure that she can, you know, and Keontae too, and sure that she can uh she can race big on on the European soil, which is a lot of Americans struggle with that. At least at least used to. I feel like Americans are starting to figure it out a lot more. But um, yeah, I feel like it's uh now people are starting to get get the European thing figured out a little bit better. Shout out T Stack ETC champion. Yeah, dude. Taylor's a Taylor is uh the first team all violence. Uh he's uh I think Taylor is maybe a year. I don't know. I'd say my prediction is maybe a year away from starting to put it all together to where like he starts to give Al Hustin some some problems and like starts to really he's already beat some of the Kenyans. So I think that he's gonna start to probably challenge for that front of that pack pretty soon, I would guess.
SPEAKER_01Oh definitely yeah, definitely. He's he's he's he's figured it out.
SPEAKER_02I think I think like so you can you can attest to this because you you you know you spent a lot of time around the guy. I've only hung out with him a couple times, but like uh I think the thing about Taylor is like obviously he's super like obviously he's super fit, obviously he works super hard. But I think the interesting thing about Taylor is what's between the ears. That is the thing that like I picked up on is that he just has this insane, like like he's a like he's he's a closer, dude. Tyler Taylor is a closer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the funny thing about T stack is you know he is such a nice guy and quiet, and maybe we'd say a little awkward sometimes. I guess we all are, but the thing about Taylor is man, like sometimes you wouldn't think it, but he's he's probably one of the most competitive people I know. And I don't know what the the saying is, like I'm like a master of none but or you know, he's just good at everything. Like we could be playing a drinking game, we could be skipping some rocks, we could be throwing something, we could be long jumping, be you know, playing music. The guy just is the best at everything. And he's competitive and he does I don't think he likes to lose. Um and I yeah, I just don't know if if people like have that trait of like I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna be an animal and I'm not gonna lose because you know, all I do is win, and all I do is show my skills that I'm like the best at everything. Um also he's a very humble man as well. So I think uh I think he would find it funny if I said all these things about him. But yeah, he's it's funny.
SPEAKER_02He's competitive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh dude, any long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're gonna lose probably. Um yeah. Anything. He'll he'll pick it up and he'll free rock. I guess. Yeah. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's uh well dude, you know what? It's it's interesting to me because um, you know, I'm like a psychoanalyst for stuff. I'm always like, what makes like what makes these people or these individual athletes so good? And obviously, like there's there's certain traits, right? Like who's gonna work the hardest, who comes there the most to fit, all those different things definitely make. matter but I think like in some of the closing things like you can have all of these traits but you could be missing that like kind of killer closing instinct and Taylor just seems like he does have that like he's um I don't know I I just think he's probably the next you know he reminds me a lot of is Eli Hemming. I don't know what it is but like there's something about like I think Eli might be um like the closest thing that I can probably compare him to within the last few years that he just reminds me a lot of I mean they just yeah like both of them like they just like line up and then it's just like it's hard to doubt those type of people like once they get on a start line.
SPEAKER_01I saw it in cross country I saw it in track and it's like once this dude lines up like he's gonna do everything in his possibility to to win and to go to places that you know maybe some people can't tap into but yeah I mean all the all the boys are balling out so that's like you know it's a joy it's a joy watching all of them.
SPEAKER_02It's cool. Yeah I do I specifically do think we have a special one in Taylor. I think Cade is going to start putting it together too I mean he had a great Black Canyon um you know he's put together some great races in the last few years but I do think Cade is another one that's got like insane potential and probably will you know will figure it out but I think Taylor as far as like immediately I think that's the next uh that's that's the next great American hope on like the golden trail scene at least.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I just uh I actually yeah I just spent some time with Kate actually for a couple of days because when I went to a basin um his roommate currently who had just moved there um like oh yeah like you know this might be the one of the only times I'm kind of on the front range for a while and so yeah I got to spend a couple of days with my other teammate and Kate and yeah I think he's I think he's making some some some big changes and you know I wouldn't I wouldn't ex uh and I wouldn't be surprised if uh you know he finds himself on a big podium here say uh at the beginning of the year um so yeah I think everyone should be excited for that yeah dude what's the story with Joan like because I've had Joan on and he just seems like such an interesting free soul um but like in college I don't he didn't did he actually go to school with you guys or he just kind of lived there no so yeah I think uh yeah so Cade just kind of invited him there to Gunnison because Cade was on the team and so then he he moved and he was living he was living at the VT house which some of the older guys lived in while I was living in the other house and he would just kind of show up to our long runs and our coach was just like okay he would he wouldn't go in the facility but we would just kind of we would all congregate outside you know it'd be like zero degrees or something and we're getting ready for a long run and you know Joan comes running up like from the house like across town and he would just run like 18 to like 23 miles with everyone like Cade was pretty high volume so he would he would go past 20 but you know for a lot of us maybe we were running 1819 or something like that. He would run like 23 miles and then on Strava he'd capture like Kobe miles or something and then you know he would like you know he'd go out on some trail run and he'd disappear for a couple of hours and then like everyone would be worried about him and then he has some epic story about like him sliding down a mountain in the pissing rain in you know crested butte.
SPEAKER_02And so yeah he's he's just a character super nice guy just real big chiller um it was yeah just just like another just like another valley character to add to the to the gunnison lore um yeah just just making it uh an even better experience with all the other guys so yeah joan's uh joan's a killer too you know shows up on the line and just you know puts in the work and you know runs well all the time it's funny man join's more of like this the story than anything like he's this this aura of this person like you hear more stories about than when you get to meet you know it's just it's I don't know it's interesting you know we I I love hearing those mythical stories of these people uh you know that almost become like larger than life so makes it interesting yeah he's a character I love him dude scale one to ten how are you feeling going into this week are you ready for uh are you pumped for for Pikes Peak Yeah I'd say the the stoke the Stoke level is high which I think is all that you can you can ask for um I think it's a good opportunity uh just to kind of show up to another legendary event and you know just try to figure out the mountain I think that's what's most intriguing about this
Pikes Peak Stoke And Closing
SPEAKER_02weekend is I think at Pikes you know there's a big element of yeah you can show up you can run well but you know how you're gonna run well is like well you got to figure out how to run hard up that mountain.
SPEAKER_01And I think it takes some people a couple of tries you know and um I'm glad there's gonna be a lot of locals out some other heavy hitters and I think they're all gonna you know motivate me and and get me up that mountain and back down as as quick as I can and just kind of see like where uh where everything falls uh by the end of it. But yeah I'm I'm excited.
SPEAKER_02I love it. Love the excitement. I've got a 5 a.m flight out of Seattle so I hope to be there at the finish line to see all of you guys oh wow see yeah yeah I'm hoping yeah well maybe I'll see you down there then I'm hoping to dude I want to I want to see you finish so it'll be uh hope to see all of you guys and be cheering out there I got my Cal Bell ready so I'll be out there hopefully on course uh the Cal Bell might be a little tired so I might have a couple coffees with me a little espresso but and uh we'll all be just so done and tired by that point. That's right. That's right. Well well thanks for coming on the show man it was great. I can't wait to run with you in person. But yeah it was so fun good good first uh pod and uh wishing you the best of luck on at your race on Saturday or Sunday. Um and yeah man thanks for thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah sweet James thanks for having me on I really appreciate it. Absolutely dude
